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    General ADSL discussion

    This is a discussion on General ADSL discussion within the Speed tests and how to get better results forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; I am beginning to regret getting involve in this nonsense. Can you explain to me how a ping of 21 ...

    1. #31
      Isitme's Avatar
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      re: General ADSL discussion

      I am beginning to regret getting involve in this nonsense. Can you explain to me how a ping of 21 is bad when you are boasting about 28

      TomD


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    3. #32
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      re: General ADSL discussion

      Given that time and again it has been said that speedtest.net is the single most useless speed testing site ever, I once was quoted 200 meg/sec on a 8 meg/sec connection.

      Also when you now are saying cable is better than ADSL due to the pings you get around the world, that is utter tosh.

      ADSL is just the method of getting the signal from the exchange to the house, everything else after that is fibre, even Vigin got told off by the ASA for misleading customers this way.

      What makes a very big difference is the actual connection points that the ISP has to the internet backbone, on NTL I always got better pings to the World of Warcraft US servers than the French servers, mainly due to a very poor Virgin/Telia connection.

      When I was on BT my packets to the BBC always went via the BT server farm in Birmingham even though I live just outside the M25, just because you live x miles from a server doesn't mean that the lines are in a direct route, the routing through the internet is all important, O2 is particulary good as they seem to have entry points needing less jumps to get to most places.

      What is probably giving you good pings is that you are on a top end premium product of which only 76,000 customers have and I would not be surprised if your packets are getting priority over the lowerr packages to promote the package.

      The new FTTC services can and do offer this, IDNET are offering packet priority over ADSL on their top package.

      It seems is that you are a Virgin fan and all that you'll do is try and say that Virgin is better than everybody else using evidence that has nothing to do with ADSL.
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    4. #33
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      re: General ADSL discussion

      Quote Originally Posted by Isitme View Post
      I am beginning to regret getting involve in this nonsense. Can you explain to me how a ping of 21 is bad when you are boasting about 28

      Wow, let me take you to school:


      Firstly, ping usually increases over distance.

      If you had two exact same servers, one in the UK and one in Australia, ping would be much higher in Australia.

      As you saw with the 1 Gb Connection it had a massive ping of 290 ms to the server in New Zealand.

      I was "boasting" about only having a ping of 165ms.

      A MASSIVE difference, especially with online gaming.

      Test you're own connection, see what you get.


      To the issue of the using speedtest.


      No one with an ADSL connection will be able to beat my ping of 28ms to the London server if they are at the same distance as me.


      The user is around 50miles away from the Maidenhead server.


      So of course his ping will be lower mine to the London server which is 250 miles from me, and as you leanred before, ping increases over distance.


      Now lets compare when i test to the same sever.


      Now i am 200 miles away from Maidenhead.

      Here is my result:




      As you can see mine is much better, this can be seen clearly when you obviously use a bigger distance. When gaming you arent connecting to people who are down you're street but worldwide. Thats why testing to servers worldwide is important in quality checking.


      So what you have leanred today is:


      1. Ping Increases over distance.

      2. Tests should be compared when they are on the same server.

      3. My Connection beats a 1 Gb Connection with a 1:1 ratio.

      4. My Cable Connection is better than any ADSL connection.

      5. My whole original point was ADSL is not suitable for gamming with its low upload speeds and high ping times.
      Last edited by BroadBandKiiNG; 02-08-10 at 03:57 PM.


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    5. #34
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      re: General ADSL discussion

      lol the fact that you belive what you are saying is making me lol big time.

      Please tell me you are doing computer science and that this will be your final year project conclusions.

      ADSL is perfectly fine for gaming and I have an upload of 1.3 meg/sec which according to your speedtest is almost the same as yours.
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    6. #35
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      re: General ADSL discussion

      Quote Originally Posted by BroadBandKiiNG View Post
      I dont get what you want me to explain?


      You're ping of 3 is possibly achieved as it may have a direct link to a London based server/you may be in London yourself.

      My college internet (taken from The University of Manchester) was 100 / 100 Mb and it achieved 10ms to bbc, so my 13ms aint bad....


      But judging by that speedtest MY HOME CONNECTION is better than that 1 Gb connection.

      Virgin Media ftw.





      No ADSL connection can match my connection.
      Firstly your the one that said that cable has a low ping which i'm simply disproved using your beloved speedtest.net

      Secondly, how do you base your comment about your home connection?

      Do you base that on a speedtest.net result that you got over exicted about?

      Your very quick to throw out numbers and issue challenges but i must admit you don't appear to be wowing anyone with these results or backing up your claims with proof, tell you what how about a challenge to you? 5 tests with a 10 miunte window lets see how much they vary?

    7. #36
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      re: General ADSL discussion

      5. My whole original point was ADSL is not suitable for gamming with its low upload speeds and high ping times.
      I respect your opinion, however, please respect mine.

      I totally 100% disagree with that statement. I have never ever had a cable connection, and even with a ping of 50 or below, it is just not going to make any difference playing online games. However I have played online games for many many years, quite happily without any adverse effects.

      Going from Sky Broadband to o2 Broadband, or from a ping of 35 to 22 made no difference whatsoever. I am just as bad.

      However, the max_delays that you would notmally get setup with on Sky, could increase your pings, but if a gamer, it's just a case of asking Sky to lower them.

      As for another observation, I would hazard a guess, and say that out of the total broadband customers in the UK on ADSL or Cable Broadband, less than 20%* or so of them are gamers. In which case the ping on your Broadband connection would be totally irrelevant anyway. The internet would still work fine.

      *If the UK Broadband community was more than this level of gamers, ISP's would have cashed in on this fact and made a 'purely gamers plan' to the best of my knowledge, only Plusnet make a big deal of this. Tiscali / F2S and one or two others did try to sell it as a value added service iirc and the fact that it is not widely advertised, kind of proves my point.

      In some games, users with a high ping unintentionally gain an unfair advantage, as in some implementations of the Quake III Arena network protocol and game engine. In these games, the player aided by the higher ping skips around, making it hard to judge where the character is exactly, and thus more elusive to target. For this reason, many servers automatically remove players with higher than average ping - with thresholds as low as 130 milliseconds.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ping_(video_gaming)

      As you can see, unless your ping is exceptionally high, then it really does not make much difference anyway. However, I do accept your explanation of;

      If you had two exact same servers, one in the UK and one in Australia, ping would be much higher in Australia.
      But that does not mean ADSL is not suitable for gaming with its low upload speeds and high ping times. That's just your opinion. Mine differs to yours.
      ~ Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience ~

    8. #37
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      re: General ADSL discussion

      I would also agree on the comments of SpeedTest.net

      Some recent results.

      Manchester

      Ping 34ms <50 miles

      Maidenhead

      Ping 64ms ~ 100 miles

      Barcelona

      Ping 59ms ~ 850 miles

      Also to prove another point we have a Ventrilo server, in fact it is probably in the same datacentre as the above Maidenhead result.

      Ventrilo Server - Maidenhead

      Ping 22ms ~100 miles

      Ping can be determined by more than just whether or not it is ADSL or Cable. Network traffic etc, slow server latency on the testing etc - I have never seen consistant results from Speedtest.net as per others' observations.
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    9. #38
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      re: General ADSL discussion

      Quote Originally Posted by Isitme View Post
      I am beginning to regret getting involve in this nonsense. Can you explain to me how a ping of 21 is bad when you are boasting about 28
      Yes mate and im currently on Talk Talk's LLU pipes with that if i trace i get around 14-16 to bbc, previous was 11-12 but doesnt make that much difference to me.

      And im not 50 miles away from Maidenhead, Dont know why it reports that on speedtest im actually 145 miles from there.

      The 11-12 that i had on copper apparently if i used a switch with it i could get it lower, So i dont know why ADSL isnt good for gaming?

      Keeps on about ping to the USA, Who the hell from the UK would want to game in a USA server anyway? I think i remember my ping to be around the 100ms which isnt exacly bad its not as if im playing for money or anything just for fun.

      Dont get me wrong though if i could get cable then i would most definetly try it but im quite happy on ADSL

    10. #39
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      re: General ADSL discussion

      Quote Originally Posted by NewsreadeR View Post
      I respect your opinion, however, please respect mine.

      I totally 100% disagree with that statement. I have never ever had a cable connection, and even with a ping of 50 or below, it is just not going to make any difference playing online games. However I have played online games for many many years, quite happily without any adverse effects.


      It absolutely makes a difference.

      lets say there is someone with a ping of 20 and someone with a ping of 30.

      The person with the ping of 20 will always be able to "shoot" first and land their shots first.



      Going from Sky Broadband to o2 Broadband, or from a ping of 35 to 22 made no difference whatsoever. I am just as bad.


      AGAIN people make the mistake of judging it only from very local servers.

      Compare it to abroad.

      Lets say me and you were in a game server thats based in California.

      Go on, do a speedtest on a server is CA and i will do it to the same.

      We will see the difference in ping and it would be quite high, in gaming terms.



      However, the max_delays that you would notmally get setup with on Sky, could increase your pings, but if a gamer, it's just a case of asking Sky to lower them.

      As for another observation, I would hazard a guess, and say that out of the total broadband customers in the UK on ADSL or Cable Broadband, less than 20%* or so of them are gamers. In which case the ping on your Broadband connection would be totally irrelevant anyway. The internet would still work fine.

      Around 20% sounds fair.

      That is a lot for one thing.

      And it absolutely makes a difference as when i eneter games, most UK players always have 1 - 3/5 bars in games like COD and never in the top end on Halo.

      Also Gears Of War, a personal fav of mine, requires an exceptional conection for smooth online play.







      *If the UK Broadband community was more than this level of gamers, ISP's would have cashed in on this fact and made a 'purely gamers plan' to the best of my knowledge, only Plusnet make a big deal of this. Tiscali / F2S and one or two others did try to sell it as a value added service iirc and the fact that it is not widely advertised, kind of proves my point.



      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ping_(video_gaming)


      You have Be* Broadband, which is owned by 02, pushing now for gaming users.

      PlusNet as you said has a dedicated service for games.

      Virgin Media advertise on thier site for gamers.

      Also im sure other sites do to.




      As you can see, unless your ping is exceptionally high, then it really does not make much difference anyway. However, I do accept your explanation of;

      Well this thread started because someone in another thread posted a ping of 130/150ms to a server very close to him.

      In online gaming, major games wont have servers based down the road from you, so ping is only going to get worse.

      Also for me and for serious PC gamers, 40ms is the max accepted or else its not skill but luck of who wins. Enjoyment is also taken out if you're just playing conection of wars.




      But that does not mean ADSL is not suitable for gaming with its low upload speeds and high ping times. That's just your opinion. Mine differs to yours.

      I fully accept you're opinion.

      But it's clear that Cable provides better ping and better upload speeds and thus is better suited to gaming.


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    11. #40
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      re: General ADSL discussion

      Quote Originally Posted by NewsreadeR View Post
      I would also agree on the comments of SpeedTest.net

      Some recent results.

      Manchester

      Ping 34ms <50 miles

      Maidenhead

      Ping 64ms ~ 100 miles

      Barcelona

      Ping 59ms ~ 850 miles

      Also to prove another point we have a Ventrilo server, in fact it is probably in the same datacentre as the above Maidenhead result.

      Ventrilo Server - Maidenhead

      Ping 22ms ~100 miles

      Ping can be determined by more than just whether or not it is ADSL or Cable. Network traffic etc, slow server latency on the testing etc - I have never seen consistant results from Speedtest.net as per others' observations.

      The point is, you look at the server and the distance.

      If we were comparing connections now it would be like this:


      You get a MASSIVE 64ms ping on Maidenhead and you say you are 100 miles away.


      I get 14ms and i am 200 miles away.


      That show's you the quality of connection, the quality of Cable vs ADSL.


      Now in an online game, my connection can connect to many servers further away than you and still have lower ping.


      If i played gears/halo/cod with my connection and you did with you'res, i have a mojar advantage over you.

      And when people with ADSL connections host games, its just terrrible and just too laggy to play.


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