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    Poor product - even worse customer services.

    This is a discussion on Poor product - even worse customer services. within the Sky unhappiness forums, part of the Sky Broadband feedback category; Here's my saga, more as a laugh for others than expecting any help!! Joined Sky in July after moving from ...

    1. #1
      sparrie2k's Avatar
      sparrie2k is offline Sky User Member
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      Angry Poor product - even worse customer services.

      Here's my saga, more as a laugh for others than expecting any help!!

      Joined Sky in July after moving from a VM area (I only moved 2 streets away but am now in a new estate not covered by Virgin). Got Sky HD, 4-mix pack (got a 1/2 price box and 1/2 price subs for 12 months), Sky Talk and Sky BB Max.

      Initially all was well, the installation went in on time, no problems switching the calls over from BT but when broadband happened things started to go wrong. I'm 800m straight line distance from the exchange, but my phone line is 2.6km long - OK I though, I won't be able to get the 14-15Mbit I expected but 10Mbit wont be too bad (I was on the 20Mbit service with Virgin). Initially I got connected at 10Mbit, but with frequent disconnections at night so I called tech support. After dealing with the foreign tier 1 people, and doing the usual master socket tests, they put it to tier 3 and said I would get a call back. This never happened, but after a few days I got a mail saying that everything was sorted and my connection would now be fine. Sync dropped to 8Mbit, still disconnecting. Called again, was given the run around, got frustrated and fired off an e-mail to James M. About a week later I get a mail from customer relations, they arrange for someone to do tests, tweaking and call me to find out results. Eventually get a stable-ish connection at 7Mbit, but still drops every other night. They say it's a line fault and I have to take it up with BT.
      I deal with BT for a bit, until they realise it's a BB problem and my voice line is fine, tell me to take it up with Sky again. I contact Sky Customer Relations again, asking them to take it up with BT on my behalf (connection is now down to 6Mbit with disconnects every other night), 4 days later I get another e-mail saying escalated tech support have fixed it. I look at my stats, connection is back up to 7Mbit, but noise margin still dropping dramatically at night (I'm talking about NM of 10dB dropping to 3dB in a matter of seconds, usually staying like that for a few minutes before climbing back to around 8dB in seconds although sometimes it stays down until I reboot the router).
      To make matters worse, I now cannot access my Sky e-mail, MySky wont let me update my profile and any attempts to access My Account on MySky are met by system unavailable. When I asked for my bills to be sent as paper because I couldn't access them online, the response I got was "We don't send paper bills but you can get them on MySky"!
      The saga continues but as it stands, I can say I've never had the displeasure of dealing with such a bunch of cowboys. I know there will be good people working there, but I really feel sorry for them as they probably get a lot of calls from irate customers who have been given the run-around by useless colleagues and expect everyone to be the same.
      I should also point out that I used to be a team supervisor in a call centre for a colourful mobile phone company (the future's a bit dim) and am now an IT sysadmin so I do understand a) procedures and b) adsl limitations but can't find any way of excusing Sky for this poor performance!


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    3. #2
      IanMax's Avatar
      IanMax is offline Sky User Member
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      Re: Poor product - even worse customer services.

      Hi sparrie2k,

      Many people have been in the same situation as you and some have been helped and others have just left sky altogether, What i would say is that if you read up on stuff and take in what people advise you to do i am sure your disconnections can be fixed.

      My first step would be to click on this link

      Sky Netgear DG834GT utility version 0.4

      and get your router stats by clicking on get detailed modem stats, then click the back button on your browser and click on open file, Then open the file with Wordpad and post the modem stats on here.

      If you have a little more confidence you can also unscrew the BT faceplate and plug into the test socket located behind the plate and see what you get from there, Also if you unscrew the front cover off the bt faceplate and locate the wires going into the bt phone socket make sure ony pins 2 and 5 are connected to wires, as if there are any other wires connected to pins 1,3,4,6 ( known as a ring wire ) this can cause line noise and problems. Most sky users have problems due to this ( ring wire ) being connected. I can confirm that many people have added alot more speed and reduced disconnections by doing this alone.

      I know in a new estate you woulod not expect there to be a problem with your phone socket but most new telephone lines are fitted with this unneeded wire as that is just the normal way to connect a phone socket up but you opnly need wires 2 and 5.

      If any of this helps or even if it doesn't let me know how you get on.

      BTW just so you know sky or any other isp have no control over your line or speeds or line noise and as you stated BT wont touch anything related to BB so if you get your line problem sorted out then you could expect an 8mbs ( at least ) stable connection 24/7. Just be patient and you will sort it. ( unless your line is actually really poor).


      Ian
      Bt phone socket and wiring help > http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/cabling-faceplate-help/

      Router stats and help on understanding them > http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/router-stats/

    4. #3
      sparrie2k's Avatar
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      Re: Poor product - even worse customer services.

      Thanks for the reply,
      I actually have been using Mognuts to check the stats a bit more closely, then found another script that monitors for errors and resyncs when the connection goes bad. Here's an example of something that happens on a typical evening:

      Oct 20 17:58:34 localhost: Error rate is 0.01% (SF = 18618, CRC = 2)
      Oct 20 18:03:38 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18679, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 18:08:41 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18618, CRC = 1)
      Oct 20 18:13:44 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18680, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 18:18:48 localhost: Error rate is 0.01% (SF = 18618, CRC = 2)
      Oct 20 18:23:51 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18618, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 18:28:55 localhost: Error rate is 0.02% (SF = 18680, CRC = 4)
      Oct 20 18:33:58 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18618, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 18:39:01 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18679, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 18:44:05 localhost: Error rate is 0.01% (SF = 18618, CRC = 2)
      Oct 20 18:49:08 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18680, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 18:54:11 localhost: Error rate is 0.03% (SF = 18618, CRC = 7)
      Oct 20 18:59:15 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18618, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 19:04:18 localhost: Error rate is 0.01% (SF = 18680, CRC = 2)
      Oct 20 19:09:22 localhost: Error rate is 0.04% (SF = 18618, CRC = 8)
      Oct 20 19:14:25 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18679, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 19:19:28 localhost: Error rate is 0.01% (SF = 18618, CRC = 2)
      Oct 20 19:24:32 localhost: Error rate is 0.01% (SF = 18680, CRC = 2)
      Oct 20 19:29:35 localhost: Error rate is 0.03% (SF = 18618, CRC = 6)
      Oct 20 19:34:39 localhost: Error rate is 0.01% (SF = 18680, CRC = 2)
      Oct 20 19:39:42 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18618, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 19:44:45 localhost: Error rate is 0.01% (SF = 18618, CRC = 3)
      Oct 20 19:49:49 localhost: Error rate is 0.04% (SF = 18679, CRC = 9)
      Oct 20 19:54:52 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18618, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 19:59:55 localhost: Error rate is 0.01% (SF = 18680, CRC = 3)
      Oct 20 20:04:59 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18618, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 20:10:02 localhost: Error rate is 0.01% (SF = 18618, CRC = 2)
      Oct 20 20:15:06 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18680, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 20:20:09 localhost: Error rate is 35.42% (SF = 18618, CRC = 6595)
      Oct 20 20:25:12 localhost: Error rate is 99.48% (SF = 18679, CRC = 18583)
      Oct 20 20:25:12 localhost: Forcing resync
      Oct 20 20:25:39 localhost: Connection re-established
      Oct 20 20:25:39 localhost: SNR (dB): 7.3 12.2
      Oct 20 20:25:39 localhost: Attn(dB): 40.0 23.8
      Oct 20 20:25:39 localhost: Rate (Kbps): 6455 764
      Oct 20 20:30:39 localhost: Error rate is 0.98% (SF = 18769, CRC = 185)
      Oct 20 20:35:42 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18710, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 20:40:46 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18771, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 20:45:49 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18710, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 20:50:53 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18771, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 20:55:56 localhost: Error rate is 0.21% (SF = 18710, CRC = 40)
      Oct 20 21:00:59 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18709, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 21:06:03 localhost: Error rate is 0.04% (SF = 18771, CRC = 9)
      Oct 20 21:11:06 localhost: Error rate is 0.10% (SF = 18710, CRC = 20)
      Oct 20 21:16:09 localhost: Error rate is 0.58% (SF = 18771, CRC = 109)
      Oct 20 21:21:13 localhost: Error rate is 0.18% (SF = 18710, CRC = 35)
      Oct 20 21:26:16 localhost: Error rate is 1.97% (SF = 18771, CRC = 371)
      Oct 20 21:31:19 localhost: Error rate is 0.17% (SF = 18709, CRC = 32)
      Oct 20 21:36:23 localhost: Error rate is 3.27% (SF = 18710, CRC = 612)
      Oct 20 21:41:26 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18771, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 21:46:30 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18710, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 21:51:33 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18771, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 21:56:36 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18710, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 22:01:40 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18771, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 22:06:43 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18709, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 22:11:47 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18710, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 22:16:50 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18771, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 22:21:53 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18710, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 22:26:57 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18771, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 22:32:00 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18710, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 22:37:03 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18771, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 22:42:07 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18709, CRC = 0)
      Oct 20 22:47:10 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 18710, CRC = 0)

      I really want to know where my line goes to find out what's causing such a sudden increase in errors. I also suspect a large portion if it is Aluminium (my drop cable certainly is) rather than Copper as I believe BT did some cost cutting in the early 2000's when this house was built.
      I've also tried the test socket for an extended period and am using a filtered master socket with CAT-5 wiring (2 pins only) for the 5m to the office. The master socket test rules this out as being the cause of the interference.
      I suspect I'm fighting a loosing battle, but also that even if I leave the problem will be down to the quality of my line and I wont get any better reliability elsewhere. I might at least get better customer service over it though!!

    5. #4
      richone54's Avatar
      richone54 is offline Sky User Member
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      Re: Poor product - even worse customer services.

      James67 tool is great, i use it myself

      from 26th to today only one major hicup as shown below, but some days i will get a few more, i have been checking for about about 3 weeks but can find no pattern, it's not so bad as the router reboots with the tool and most times i do not even notice

      Oct 28 02:44:45 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 02:49:48 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17879, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 02:54:52 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 02:59:55 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17878, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 03:04:58 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 03:10:02 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 03:15:05 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17879, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 03:20:08 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 03:25:12 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17879, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 03:30:15 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 03:35:18 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17819, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 03:40:21 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17879, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 03:45:25 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 03:50:28 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 03:55:31 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17879, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 04:00:35 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 04:05:38 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17878, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 04:10:41 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 04:15:45 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 04:20:48 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17879, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 04:25:51 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 04:30:55 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17879, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 04:35:58 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17819, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 04:41:01 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 04:46:05 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17879, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 04:51:08 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 04:56:11 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 05:01:15 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17879, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 05:06:18 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 05:11:21 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17878, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 05:16:24 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 05:21:28 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 05:26:31 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17879, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 05:31:34 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 05:36:38 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 05:41:41 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17878, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 05:46:44 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 05:51:48 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17879, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 05:56:51 localhost: Error rate is 0.03% (SF = 17820, CRC = 6)
      Oct 28 06:01:54 localhost: Error rate is 0.24% (SF = 17820, CRC = 44)
      Oct 28 06:06:58 localhost: Error rate is 0.08% (SF = 17879, CRC = 16)
      Oct 28 06:12:01 localhost: Error rate is 0.20% (SF = 17820, CRC = 37)
      Oct 28 06:17:04 localhost: Error rate is 1.34% (SF = 17819, CRC = 240)
      Oct 28 06:22:08 localhost: Error rate is 23.69% (SF = 17879, CRC = 4236)
      Oct 28 06:27:11 localhost: Error rate is 80.99% (SF = 17820, CRC = 14433)
      Oct 28 06:27:11 localhost: Forcing resync
      Oct 28 06:27:46 localhost: Connection re-established
      Oct 28 06:27:46 localhost: SNR (dB): 11.9 14.0
      Oct 28 06:27:46 localhost: Attn(dB): 41.0 27.0
      Oct 28 06:27:46 localhost: Rate (Kbps): 7168 416
      Oct 28 06:32:46 localhost: Error rate is 0.93% (SF = 17819, CRC = 166)
      Oct 28 06:37:49 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17879, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 06:42:52 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 06:47:56 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17878, CRC = 0)
      Oct 28 06:52:59 localhost: Error rate is 0.00% (SF = 17820, CRC = 0)

    6. #5
      sparrie2k's Avatar
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      Re: Poor product - even worse customer services.

      Have you set your target NSR to 12 or have Sky capped your connection? I notice your line is (a bit) longer then mine but you still get a better speed with a higher SNR
      One interesting this I had which they couldn't explain, when they took me off ADSL2+ and put me on G.DMT my attenuation dropped from 40.5 to 37. When they put me back on 2+ it only went up to 40!

    7. #6
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      Re: Poor product - even worse customer services.

      Sorry - just noticed you're on Mid which would account for the higher SNR!

    8. #7
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      Re: Poor product - even worse customer services.

      Nope, the reason for ny higher Nm is because i'm lightly capped (should be 8096 but at 7198)
      Gdmt is also a much more stable connection(and will lower your att by a couple), if you have a look in Mognuts utility you can change yourself to this mode and test for a few hours (this is better than sky doing it as you can move it back when you want to, if sky do it it can only be changed by them)

      have a go and let me know how you get on
      Last edited by richone54; 28-10-07 at 08:40 AM.

     

     

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