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    Sky's New phone & broadband network

    This is a discussion on Sky's New phone & broadband network within the Sky Talk forums, part of the Other Sky help and support category; My response in general to some of the other posts in this thread: 1) As correctly mentioned, not going to ...

    1. #21
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      Re: Sky's New phone & broadband network

      My response in general to some of the other posts in this thread:

      1) As correctly mentioned, not going to the new network will not mean slower broadband. The only benefit moving over will be is that sky will have a little more testing capabilities on the line. Nothing more in terms of broadband.

      2) If you don't have sky talk line rental, there is not an issue as you will always be on the "old network" - that is, you will always be on SMPF from openreach - see my 1st post.

      3) For the same reason as point 2 - opting out will not prevent you from getting the new broadband speeds if your line will take it.

      4) I too am surprised they are giving an option to opt-out. Other providers are MPF only or nowt at all.

      5) MIGRATION - the MAC process currently applies to switching broadband between providers whilst staying put with your voice provider. It is all based on SMPF to SMPF migrations, or SMPF to MPF migrations.

      It does NOT work for MPF back to SMPF. This is because if you switch broadband provider and stay with you voice provider, nothing changes with your voice account - the new broadband is simply added to the line and the old one removed. If you have MPF (ie the "new" sky network for voice and bb) and wish to swich both voice and bb back to BT, sky simply cease your line - until this is completed, a new order cannot be raised as the line used by sky is still being rented by openreach to sky until the cease has been completed.

      I know this stinks, but there is no process for switching back - any company which reduces or negates this downtime are working to shorter lead-times or whatever - all I do know is they are not using an agreed migration system.

      Similarly - previously when you moved your line rental from BT to sky, all that was happening was that both proiders were using the openreach product wholesale line rental - so when you switch, nothing gets ceased, openreach simply keep the line active and chage the billing info on the line to the new service provider, who then bills you in turn. Nothing gets ceased.

      6) Just for info - if you do "migrate" to the new sky broadband/voice network and you get a MPF circuit, this shows on the system Openreach uses as a CEASE of your existing service and a new provide for a new MDF circuit. How the transfer of phone number occurs, I don't know - what I do know is that on an MPF circuit, openreach have no info about your phone number. On a normal line or an SMPF line, the circuit is identified by openreach using the phone number. With an MPF, it is identified by a unique LLU circuit number, not a phone number. Remember, with an MPF, what the provider wants to put down the line is up to them.

      7) To kind of summarise the above, when you moved voice provider in the past, you didn't physically move anywhere - it was a change electronically only, which all ended up back to BT, be it with a different company name on your paper bill.

      If you move to sky's "new" network, you are physically moving away from BT and their systems. You only exist to openreach as a copper line to a premises, no services. This is the difference and the breakdown with migrations.

      MY VIEW - opt out to allow for flexibility until sky either force you to switch OR limit your service due to cost differences OR announce something more exciting than voicemail through the web.

      I don't think anything back handed is intended by sky - it is just such a needlessly complex situation that they have tried to put it into layman's terms through their mailshots.

      For ultimte peace of mind, move your line rental back to BT or another provider and keep your sky BB. If you don't have sky line rental, you don't have this problem. That is what sky will not want you to ponder.

      Sky can shift you onto another openreach product without notice - their contract is with openreach on that front. The ToS applies between sky and you. It is because their ToS does not reflect what the new cancellation process with MPF will involve, that they have been forced to make this debacle public. By not opting out, you are agreeing to new terms of service.


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    3. #22
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      Re: Sky's New phone & broadband network

      The reason i believe sky have given people an option, when people like TalkTalk didn't is that it was made clear at the time of joining that you were going to be moved to from BTs network onto TalkTalks, where with sky this was not the case, the move was after people had transferred. I have just moved from TalkTalk back to BT and maybe can shed some light on what i have had to do although the fact i don't need broadband on the BT line means it was slightly easier. I phoned TT and told them i wished to go back to BT, Then phoned BT and told them i wished to return was then given a date and it was explained that in returning i am agreeing to a 12 month line rental contract with BT retail, and an early termination fee would apply if i was to leave within the 12 months, i had my broadband with another company on another line, so this wasn't affected, but talking to a friend who did transfer broadband and that involved him being without broadband for 10-14 days. The cost of moving back was free, i assume the process for moving from sky LLU would be pretty much the same. ISorry for rambling on but hope it may help someone.

    4. #23
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      RST
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      Re: Sky's New phone & broadband network

      Well said paul7285.

      I know that the physical size of the equipment that Sky are using is a lot smaller too so there is more space available at exchanges.

    5. #24
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      Re: Sky's New phone & broadband network

      Quote Originally Posted by paul7285 View Post
      MY VIEW - opt out to allow for flexibility until sky either force you to switch OR limit your service due to cost differences OR announce something more exciting than voicemail through the web.

      I don't think anything back handed is intended by sky - it is just such a needlessly complex situation that they have tried to put it into layman's terms through their mailshots.

      For ultimte peace of mind, move your line rental back to BT or another provider and keep your sky BB. If you don't have sky line rental, you don't have this problem. That is what sky will not want you to ponder.

      Sky can shift you onto another openreach product without notice - their contract is with openreach on that front. The ToS applies between sky and you. It is because their ToS does not reflect what the new cancellation process with MPF will involve, that they have been forced to make this debacle public. By not opting out, you are agreeing to new terms of service.

      After much deliberation, I have just opted-out with the following comment:

      "I wish to retain my option to change my telephone and/or broadband service provider in the future with minimal downtime.

      Changing to the new network will make changing service providers more complicated and difficult, including significant time without service."

      I've been on Sky BB Mid for 2 years now and I've been very happy with it, but I'm not happy with the reduction in monthly usage cap. No idea what my monthly usage is but I'm sure it will be over 10GB monthly. Have asked Sky and they cannot tell me. So I'm expecting to be contacted about exceeding the cap after the end of August!

      Switched to Sky Talk back in March (before the 12 month contracts came in) but got 12 months free line rental and 6 months free Sky Talk Unlimited, so at the moment I'm "in pocket" to a certain extent.

      Anyway paul7285's comments swung it for me in favour of opt-out...
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      (previously powered by Sky Broadband from July 2007)

    6. #25
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      Re: Sky's New phone & broadband network

      Quote Originally Posted by RST View Post
      I know that the physical size of the equipment that Sky are using is a lot smaller too so there is more space available at exchanges.
      The equipment each LLU provider use is fairly similar and the footprint in the exchange is quite small - the physical space in the exchange is not normally the issue, it is the logistics and capacity of the main distibution frame which can be the issue, which is the responsibility of Openreach and BT Operate.

      In many exchanges, the equipment is located on a different floor to the frame and the tie cable is fed between the two. If no block space is available on the frame then Openreach can do redundant block recoveries or worst case frame extensions, frame compressions or even build a new frame - the latter 3 all very very expensive.

    7. #26
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      Re: Sky's New phone & broadband network

      Quote Originally Posted by speedyrite View Post
      After much deliberation, I have just opted-out ....

      Anyway paul7285's comments swung it for me in favour of opt-out...
      I have hit that button too saying much the same as you my friend - I have also stated that if they try and enforce it i will simply switch my voice and or broadband to another provider.

      Nobody should be concerned about sky doing this without notice - they need you to accept new ToS before they can switch you - the big worry is that you don't opt-in, you opt out - nor do you sign a contract. A lot of people will bin their sky mag this month and not know any different.

    8. #27
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      Re: Sky's New phone & broadband network

      Quote Originally Posted by janitor View Post
      The reason i believe sky have given people an option, when people like TalkTalk didn't is that it was made clear at the time of joining that you were going to be moved to from BTs network onto TalkTalks, where with sky this was not the case, the move was after people had transferred. I have just moved from TalkTalk back to BT and maybe can shed some light on what i have had to do.....
      Thanks for sharing this janitor - it backs up this entire thread about no seamless backwards migration from MPF.

    9. #28
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      Re: Sky's New phone & broadband network

      The penny is finally dropping as to an explanation of just what the telephone set up was in my place. Whether it helps or not, I'll run through what happened to me.

      Moved in at the beginning of June so went looking for BB service providers. Had been overseas for years and things have changed a lot.

      There was a functioning line which I found out was Talk Talk. I guessed it was a BT line so until today and the above posts, I didn't know what they were talking about saying they owned the line and BT saying they didn't own it and me saying that I really didn't think anyone came and ripped a line out or put one in.

      I knew I needed Sky for the TV as I've a baby and there isn't a comparable television package. I am more than happy with that.

      BT wanted 125 to put a new line in (crap, they mean connect 2 wires) so they were out. That meant O2 was a non starter. I found out through Money Saving Expert: Consumer Revenge - Credit Cards, Shopping, Bank Charges, Cheap Flights and more that BT would install a new line if you asked them but you have to go on some plan and make so many chargeable calls every so often and their BB was so expensive, that I just said no.

      I tried to get Talk Talk (TT) to just transfer the line to my name. The previous people had just disappeared. 20+ conversations later I faxed a form with a some account details on it to their office but no-one confirmed receipt and nothing happened. So I went with Sky, had them put a new line in and add the BB.

      Everything working when I get a letter from TT saying they have everything set up. Now 2 companies but then Sky shoots itself in the foot by changing the Mid package and I've got to cancel one of them. I am as yet undecided which one goes but I have to decide this week. I guess it will be Sky who goes.

    10. #29
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      Re: Sky's New phone & broadband network

      Quote Originally Posted by return2base View Post
      Everything working when I get a letter from TT saying they have everything set up. Now 2 companies but then Sky shoots itself in the foot by changing the Mid package and I've got to cancel one of them. I am as yet undecided which one goes but I have to decide this week. I guess it will be Sky who goes.
      Personally, I would pick Sky's network over TalkTalk. They have an even lower reputation than Sky on customer service and their BB network seems to be more prone to problems.

      Just because Sky have installed a line doesn't necessarily mean it is theirs - highly likely that it is but worth checking with them. Even if it is, you have the TV package so Sky Unlimited BB will only be 3 a month more than TalkTalk with their 40GB cap.

    11. #30
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      Re: Sky's New phone & broadband network

      Quote Originally Posted by paul7285 View Post
      MY VIEW - opt out to allow for flexibility until sky either force you to switch OR limit your service due to cost differences OR announce something more exciting than voicemail through the web.
      Thanks.

      I've now decided to opt out, & as the reason I said I don't trust them any more after the mid download cut.
      Being tortured by a mord-sith takes on new meaning

     

     
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