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    DLM and O2 router or Sky SR101 router - which is best?

    This is a discussion on DLM and O2 router or Sky SR101 router - which is best? within the Sky & DLM forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; As you can see 8 seconds in and SNR was 4db - can't see a target of 3db jumping up ...

    1. #61
      Isitme's Avatar
      Isitme is offline Sky User Moderator
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      Re: DLM and O2 router or Sky SR101 router - which is best?

      As you can see 8 seconds in and SNR was 4db - can't see a target of 3db jumping up to 4db in 8 seconds. Might be wrong of course.
      It would not automatically default to 3db. If the condition on the line is good, it will reset to the maximum speed as set by DLM. My default margin is 3db and I have seen a sudden drop out then a resync to DLM set speed with a higher margin.

      Both our site calculator and Kitz's one show you should be getting around 6.4Mb with a target margin of 6 db, so you are not far away.

      TomD


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    3. #62
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      jem16 is offline Sky User Member
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      Re: DLM and O2 router or Sky SR101 router - which is best?

      Quote Originally Posted by Isitme View Post
      It would not automatically default to 3db. If the condition on the line is good, it will reset to the maximum speed as set by DLM. My default margin is 3db and I have seen a sudden drop out then a resync to DLM set speed with a higher margin.
      Thanks.

      Well that probably answers my question then - Sky's DLM seems to set a maximum speed.

      With O2 and Plusnet a router would always sync at its target SNR. If no noise was present then the highest possible speed was achieved. If there was noise present then a lower speed was achieved. The lower the target SNR, the higher the maximum speed so unstable lines would have the target SNR raised to increase stability but at the expense of speed.

      So Sky's DLM works very differently to BT's DLM.

      One question on that then - what's the purpose behind setting a target SNR if DLM is actually setting a maximum speed?

      Both our site calculator and Kitz's one show you should be getting around 6.4Mb with a target margin of 6 db, so you are not far away.
      As I said I'm not too fussed about 7.2mb as opposed to 7.4mb and when I was last with Sky and before that O2, I was getting around 6.2mb. There were some improvements made when I was with Plusnet which has allowed for the increased speed so far.

    4. #63
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      Re: DLM and O2 router or Sky SR101 router - which is best?

      Sky's DLM software now uses a range of technologies. Some of which we've discussed on the forums (e.g. G.INP), others we haven't as they are known to only a few people within the Network team.

      Essentially with these, combined with the 3dB target, you should be able to get a good stable connection that performs well for your line.

      Stability is Sky's goal, with the best potential speed.

      With all DLM software now your line is constantly monitored. If there are any issues then the connection speed is adjusted so that the issues are compensated for.

      With the technologies that Sky use though, the potential speed you can now achieve is much better than previously on an identical line. Some of the functions which they do is to compensate for 'cross-talk' which isn't something that you can prevent in busy areas. Under normal conditions cross-talk would result in your line speed reducing, but now it stays high.

      It is also important to appreciate that for the technologies to work properly you also need a suitable firmware installed on your router. Both the SR101 & SR101 have this update. So too does the Sagem 2504N. I believe that the Sagem 2304n and Sagem 2504 does too, but I'm not 100% sure of those models.

      What this means is that whilst a lot of other people understandably don't like the Sky routers, they might be losing out to a some of the potential performance that they otherwise might gain.

      PlusNet Fibre since Jan 2021
      Previously Sky Fibre & Sky BB since 2010.

    5. #64
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      Re: DLM and O2 router or Sky SR101 router - which is best?

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      Sky's DLM software now uses a range of technologies. Some of which we've discussed on the forums (e.g. G.INP), others we haven't as they are known to only a few people within the Network team.

      Essentially with these, combined with the 3dB target, you should be able to get a good stable connection that performs well for your line.
      I think I've just been struggling with the differences between how each DLM works.

      With Plusnet I was on a 6db target and was achieving just over 7mb consistently.

      Now I'm on a 3db target but from what I can gather the maximum speed is set - perhaps at about 7.2mb.

      So it just appears to be the same thing done in a different way.


      What this means is that whilst a lot of other people understandably don't like the Sky routers, they might be losing out to a some of the potential performance that they otherwise might gain.
      I don't have an issue with the Sky router and I expect I'll change back once I've got the info I really wanted. It was important to see if the issue I had with Plusnet on the incoming calls was fixed now or not and the Sky router couldn't give me that info.

      I did notice that the firmware hadn't updated to the most recent - is there any reason behind that?

      I may at some point decide to upgrade to fibre - like the speeds of Fibre Pro but not the cost at 30pm though! I do have the option of Virgin in my area as well.

    6. #65
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      Re: DLM and O2 router or Sky SR101 router - which is best?

      The firmware you have will support the DLM tech requirements, so don't panic there.

      The latest firmware was withdrawn after a few disconnection issues were picked up. Sky are working to resolve it and a new firmware should be rolled out in due course.

      Early indications were that the issue had been resolved. However things went a little quiet so I would guess that those on it are posting on a beta forum instead.

      The latest firmware improves the IPv6 features. We should see IPv6 be pushed across the whole Sky network soon. Although there is no official word, I believe that this will happen this year. I had thought it was happening in the Autumn last year.

      PlusNet Fibre since Jan 2021
      Previously Sky Fibre & Sky BB since 2010.

    7. #66
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      Re: DLM and O2 router or Sky SR101 router - which is best?

      Just had a wee chat with Sky - obviously a non-techie from the sound of it.

      Managed to confirm that speed was set to 7.3mb on my line - that took a few attempts as she kept quoting me the estimated speed range of 3.5mb to 8.5mb.

      Then tried to ask for the target SNR - that totally confused her. Went off to speak to a supervisor and came back to tell me it was 7 over 7. I think she meant 7db DS and 7db US was Sky's default SNR but as DLM can obviously lower it and mine is currently at 4db just now then she really didn't understand my question unfortunately.

      Now I assume this is just Customer Service who are simply reading what is in front of them. Is there a 2nd level of support that actually does technical stuff?

      - - - Updated - - -

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      The firmware you have will support the DLM tech requirements, so don't panic there.

      The latest firmware was withdrawn after a few disconnection issues were picked up. Sky are working to resolve it and a new firmware should be rolled out in due course.

      Early indications were that the issue had been resolved. However things went a little quiet so I would guess that those on it are posting on a beta forum instead.

      The latest firmware improves the IPv6 features. We should see IPv6 be pushed across the whole Sky network soon. Although there is no official word, I believe that this will happen this year. I had thought it was happening in the Autumn last year.
      That makes sense - thanks for the explanation.

    8. #67
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      Re: DLM and O2 router or Sky SR101 router - which is best?

      Sky's target customer base isn't one that has any technical knowledge.

      Whilst many of the staff in the calls centres do have some technical knowledge, it isn't required so many don't.

      Yes there are other levels where the technical knowledge is useful and is taught.

      The staff in the call centres do have access t information that you otherwise can't see, such as error rates. This can be useful to see if there is an issue on your line, but not so much to improve the line speeds now.

      It used to be popular to tweak the SNR values in order to improve the line speed. Most who might have done that on ADSL connections are now on Fibre connections where such tweaking has almost become pointless IMHO (sorry you want an extra 400kbps on a line that does 65,000kbps?). For those who are still on ADSL for whatever reason, the new knowledge that has been used to improve the DLM software has more than made up for the early deficiencies.

      One of the things we saw n these forums, for those close to the exchanges, was a high number of members who were reporting connection speeds in excess of 23mb/s down and 1.4mb/s up.

      For those who used to be in the grey area, like yourself, where the connection speed was below 8mb, it was sometimes found that forcing an ADSL, rather than ADSL2+, profile would improve the connection speed and reliability.

      With the new technologies this all changed. As a direct consequence the traffic to the forums dropped.

      PlusNet Fibre since Jan 2021
      Previously Sky Fibre & Sky BB since 2010.

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