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    VDSL Faceplate wiring concerns - Need I do anything?

    This is a discussion on VDSL Faceplate wiring concerns - Need I do anything? within the Sky Broadband (Fibre) Help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Hi Guys and Girls, Firstly, sorry about the long winded post, but I feel it's important to give you as ...

    1. #1
      Miracle_Boy66's Avatar
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      VDSL Faceplate wiring concerns - Need I do anything?

      Hi Guys and Girls,

      Firstly, sorry about the long winded post, but I feel it's important to give you as much info as is possibly relevant to my question. (see bottom of post)

      Today I've taken the plunge and signed up for BT's Infinity 2 service, so I can get BT sport for free. (I'm a big MotoGP fan, and it's the only way i can get to watch MotoGP)

      I have Sky ADSL2+ at the moment. With the NTE5 mastersocket. I have several telephone line extansion cables fitted, including the one for my current BB connection, which is upstairs in my computer room. My Master socket is down stairs in the hallway.

      All my extansions from the master socket are wired using CAT5E cable, and are all linked in parallel to each other. ONLY the blue pair of wires is connected to the extensions and these are connected to the screw type A B terminals on the back of the NTE5 faceplate. I have no need for the ringer wire to be connected to the extensions as my Sky box doesn't need a ringer to be connected to work.

      My master socket is the ONLY place where my land line phone actually plugs in, the other phone extensions are used to hook up my Sky box, another feeds my ADSL2+ connection, and the last one leads up to my loft where I have another room. The socket in the loft might be a modular master socket as well, I can't remember now, but all other extension sockets are slaves, so no ringer capacitor there.

      My ADSL2+ feed is terminated with a modular RJ11 socket, into which I have my current flat grey router cable plugged into. My Land line phone and Sky box are both connected to a regular telephone sockets via the microfilters that came with my router.

      It is my understanding that:-

      A) when/if BT openreach install a data extension cablefor VDSL, that it is an unfiltered data connection, and

      B) that microfilters are only fitted to reduce noise caused by voice transmision or noise from my phone or sky box. (Or at least that's the case for ADSL2+)

      Is this correct? If so, it would seem that I have no need to do anything with my wiring to make it better suited to receive VDSL?

      If needs be, I can do some rewiring and make a twisted pair available so that when the BT/Openreach engineer turns up to do my install, all he'll need to do is connect them up to the new VDSL IDC terminals behind the front faceplate. If I need to rewire the other extentions so that are connected to the IDC terminal, rathers than the A B terminals I can do that too. I'd just like to be sure that everything is wired as best as possible before the engineer turns up to do the install.

      Any advice will be most gratefully received!!

      Sorry again for the long winded post!!

      Thanks in advance!!

      Regards
      MB
      Last edited by Miracle_Boy66; 01-03-14 at 11:13 PM.


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    3. #2
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      Re: VDSL Faceplate wiring concerns - Need I do anything?

      Sky no longer has a BTO engineer visit your property when you are moved to one of their Fibre products. They are all self-install, unless you pay extra for a Sky person to install your router.

      Personally I would do the following in your case, if this is possible:


      1. Install the VDSL Faceplate in the NTE5 Master Socket
      2. Get a suitable 10m lead or make a lead from good quality Cat 5e cable with RJ11 connectors at each end to the right length
      3. Plug this lead at one end into the Modem socket on the VDSL faceplate
      4. Carefully tack the cable in place and run it to where you want the router to be located


      Do be careful not to run the cable where it is likely to be walked upon. Over time the cable would split and short if you do this. The Cat 5e cable can be up to 30m, at least this is what BTO would have done.

      An alternative option would be to use a shorter cable to connect the router to the VDSL socket, run a Cat 5e network cable to where the old router has been used and either use that to connect to your own router (see guide linked below) or purchase a suitable WiFi Extender or Network Switch. The network cable (with RJ45 connectors) can be any length up to 100m and could easily be run behind the wall if it is possible.

      http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/askin...-together.html

      Why do I favour connecting the router to the Master Socket? Simply because telephone extension cables can and do cause the signal to degrade rapidly. The result is that your connection speed will not be at its best.

      Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro: Connected at 80,000 kbps / 20,000 kbps
      Previous ADSL2+ Speed 19999 kbps 1153 kbps, Line Attenuation 17.5 db 6.9 db, Noise Margin 7.5 dB 8.7 dB
      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

    4. #3
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      Re: VDSL Faceplate wiring concerns - Need I do anything?

      Have BT told you that you will get an engineer install? Some Infinity connections are self install, but I understand BT treats each case individually, so you may or may not get an engineer install. It should be quite possible for the engineer to set you up with a dedicated VDSL connection using spare pairs in your existing wiring. If you don't get an engineer install you seem quite capable of sorting it out your self. Just remember like ADSL fibre requires everything except the router to run through a filter, either a central one or individual plug ins.

      TomD


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    5. #4
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      Re: VDSL Faceplate wiring concerns - Need I do anything?

      Quote Originally Posted by Isitme View Post
      Have BT told you that you will get an engineer install? Some Infinity connections are self install, but I understand BT treats each case individually, so you may or may not get an engineer install. It should be quite possible for the engineer to set you up with a dedicated VDSL connection using spare pairs in your existing wiring. If you don't get an engineer install you seem quite capable of sorting it out your self. Just remember like ADSL fibre requires everything except the router to run through a filter, either a central one or individual plug ins.

      O.K. My thanks to you both Scubbie and Isitme for your replies.

      Yes, I will be getting a visit from a BTO "engineer" to do my install. For whetever reason, If I'd ordered BT Infinity 1 (Up to 38Mb) it would have been a self install. But if you order Infinity 2 (Up to 76Mb) a BTO engineer will visit and install either the ECI or Hauwei modem. I don't think a modem is required for Infinity 1, I can only assume that this difference is related to the way the two services are delivered by the FTTC cabinet

      BT Infinity installation (maximum speed of up to 80Mb) | Help | BT.com Help

      If I understand Isitme correctly, What I want is for data stream going to my router (im my case via a BTO modem) to be a straight, unfiltered data flow which potentially includes both VDSL data and voice information, just like it is delivered down my drop cable? This is what I have now with my ADSL connection, and it's terminated in my computer room with an RJ11 socket, rather than a regular phone socket or RJ45.

      In my case, I have plug in microfilters where I have my Land line phone and Sky box, these are the only things I have connected to my other (unfilltered) extensions. Like I said, everything from the master socket is Cat5e.

      The only issue I can see with my current set up, is that if the BTO engineer does not carry a stock of plug in VDSL microfilers to replace my ADSL microfilters, then I'd need to do some rewiring? I've read that the ADSL and VDSL filters are exactly the same. Do you know if this true?

      If I do need to use one of the spare twisted pairs I have on the cat5E cable that goes to my computer room, I'll have to use a few of those gel filled crimp terminals to reach the 12 inches or so from where my master socket is to where my extensions are actually terminated, as they are actually terminated on the other side of the wall to where the master socket is located. The gel crimps work perfectly for ADSL. Is there any reason why they wouldn't work just as well for VDSL? I beleive BT use the same gel crip terminals in their cabinets, but are they only good for voice and regular ASDL BB?

      Oh, One last thing that might be worth noting:- My drop cable is not terminated directly to my master socket. The drop cable is terminated to a regular BT78A 4 pair juction box like the one bellow.

      http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/26113...f13=80&ff14=95

      From that there is a less than 1 meter run of the regular BT white sheathed (4, possibly 2) twisted pair cable which runs into the back of the master socket. Again, ONLY the bule pair of wires is terminated at the junction box at the drop cable.

      It was like this when I moved in, and since that side of the instalation is BT's property, I've not touched it. Is that type of cable, even in such a short run, capable of handling VDSL?

      Thanks again!!!
      Last edited by Miracle_Boy66; 03-03-14 at 02:24 AM.

    6. #5
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      Re: VDSL Faceplate wiring concerns - Need I do anything?

      All my extansions from the master socket are wired using CAT5E cable, and are all linked in parallel to each other. ONLY the blue pair of wires is connected to the extensions and these are connected to the screw type A B terminals on the back of the NTE5 faceplate. I have no need for the ringer wire to be connected to the extensions as my Sky box doesn't need a ringer to be connected to work.
      Your extensions should NOT be connected to the A & B terminals, they should be connected to 2, 3 & 5 on the lower front faceplate.

      My master socket is the ONLY place where my land line phone actually plugs in, the other phone extensions are used to hook up my Sky box, another feeds my ADSL2+ connection, and the last one leads up to my loft where I have another room. The socket in the loft might be a modular master socket as well, I can't remember now, but all other extension sockets are slaves, so no ringer capacitor there.
      In which case you need to rewire it as above, at the moment you have the ADSL signal travelling down every wire!

      My ADSL2+ feed is terminated with a modular RJ11 socket, into which I have my current flat grey router cable plugged into. My Land line phone and Sky box are both connected to a regular telephone sockets via the microfilters that came with my router.

      It is my understanding that:-

      A) when/if BT openreach install a data extension cable for VDSL, that it is an unfiltered data connection, and
      No, it's a DATA extension, that is an Ethernet extension. The cable goes between the Ethernet port of the modem & the port marked WAN on the router. This may have changed as the HH5 has an integrated vDSL model.

      B) that microfilters are only fitted to reduce noise caused by voice transmision or noise from my phone or sky box. (Or at least that's the case for ADSL2+)
      Yes they filter the noise from the DSL signal, however without them a phone is use will cause the BB to drop the connection.
      Is this correct? If so, it would seem that I have no need to do anything with my wiring to make it better suited to receive VDSL?
      You need to rewire as above, all extensions for phones ONLY need to connect to 2, 3 & 5 on the lower front faceplate. If your vDSL router/modem is to be on an extension then that pair rewires to the two IDC connections on the vDSL faceplate.
      I've read that the ADSL and VDSL filters are exactly the same. Do you know if this true?
      Some ISP's are supplying filters designed for ADSL, a vDSL filter needs much better filtering, in short get the vDSL faceplate.
      The gel crimps work perfectly for ADSL. Is there any reason why they wouldn't work just as well for VDSL?
      No.
      run-IT-direct, For all your networking, ADSL & telecom requirements.

    7. #6
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      Re: VDSL Faceplate wiring concerns - Need I do anything?

      Quote Originally Posted by RUNITDIRECT View Post
      All my extansions from the master socket are wired using CAT5E cable, and are all linked in parallel to each other. ONLY the blue pair of wires is connected to the extensions and these are connected to the screw type A B terminals on the back of the NTE5 faceplate. I have no need for the ringer wire to be connected to the extensions as my Sky box doesn't need a ringer to be connected to work.
      Your extensions should NOT be connected to the A & B terminals, they should be connected to 2, 3 & 5 on the lower front faceplate.

      My master socket is the ONLY place where my land line phone actually plugs in, the other phone extensions are used to hook up my Sky box, another feeds my ADSL2+ connection, and the last one leads up to my loft where I have another room. The socket in the loft might be a modular master socket as well, I can't remember now, but all other extension sockets are slaves, so no ringer capacitor there.
      In which case you need to rewire it as above, at the moment you have the ADSL signal travelling down every wire!

      My ADSL2+ feed is terminated with a modular RJ11 socket, into which I have my current flat grey router cable plugged into. My Land line phone and Sky box are both connected to a regular telephone sockets via the microfilters that came with my router.

      It is my understanding that:-

      A) when/if BT openreach install a data extension cable for VDSL, that it is an unfiltered data connection, and
      No, it's a DATA extension, that is an Ethernet extension. The cable goes between the Ethernet port of the modem & the port marked WAN on the router. This may have changed as the HH5 has an integrated vDSL model.

      B) that microfilters are only fitted to reduce noise caused by voice transmision or noise from my phone or sky box. (Or at least that's the case for ADSL2+)
      Yes they filter the noise from the DSL signal, however without them a phone is use will cause the BB to drop the connection.
      Is this correct? If so, it would seem that I have no need to do anything with my wiring to make it better suited to receive VDSL?
      You need to rewire as above, all extensions for phones ONLY need to connect to 2, 3 & 5 on the lower front faceplate. If your vDSL router/modem is to be on an extension then that pair rewires to the two IDC connections on the vDSL faceplate.
      I've read that the ADSL and VDSL filters are exactly the same. Do you know if this true?
      Some ISP's are supplying filters designed for ADSL, a vDSL filter needs much better filtering, in short get the vDSL faceplate.
      The gel crimps work perfectly for ADSL. Is there any reason why they wouldn't work just as well for VDSL?
      No.
      Thank you for your reply.

      Yes, I realise that I don't exactly have standard wiring. My Extensions should not really be connected to the A & B terminals. I also understand that currently, I have the ADSL signal travelling down each of my extensions.

      The thing is, my phone plugs into the facia socket on the NTE5 master socket, so It's being filtered through the filters on the faceplate (if there are any?) and then through the micro filter that plugged into the master socket.

      Though I have several extensions, the only one that's actually in use is the one that the Sky box is plugged into, and it has micro filters attached. I have never seen any ill effects of having the aDSL signal interfering with the Sky box's ability to communicate via the phone socket.

      Having said that, I fully intend to put the wiring right in my installation and so I will re do the termination of the Extension cables so that they are connected to the IDC terminals (2 and 5) on the master socket. Is there any need to connect any wire to (3) the ringer wire terminal? I don't use it or need it at the moment, so I see no need to connect it.

      I'll use another twisted pair from the RJ11 socket up in my computer room and make it available to the BTO engineer, so he can connect it to the two IDC vDSL terminals on the vDSL faceplate.

      Lastly, while I'm doing the work above, I'm considering replacing that short run of white sheathed standard BT twisted pair phone cable with some Cat5e instead. I am aware that I shouldn't really touch that side of the Master socket, but I'm curious to know if you think it would make any difference to my sync and connection speed if I were to replace, or even ask BT to replace that short run of cable with some Cat5e instead?

      Thanks again!!

      Cheers!!

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      Re: VDSL Faceplate wiring concerns - Need I do anything?

      So if you take Infinity 1 you get one of the new Version 5 Super Hubs, but if you take 2 or 3 you get a separate modem, presumably with the older Ver 4 Hub which does not have a built in modem. Seems you are better starting with BTI 1 to get the good router then upgrade later to BTI 2 or 3.

      TomD


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      Useful Utilites

      https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.





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      Re: VDSL Faceplate wiring concerns - Need I do anything?

      The thing is, my phone plugs into the facia socket on the NTE5 master socket, so It's being filtered through the filters on the faceplate (if there are any? None, only a bell wire filter if you have a later NTE5) and then through the micro filter that plugged into the master socket.

      Though I have several extensions, the only one that's actually in use is the one that the Sky box is plugged into, and it has micro filters attached. I have never seen any ill effects of having the aDSL signal interfering with the Sky box's ability to communicate via the phone socket.
      It doesn't matter if they are in use or not, the fact is the ADSL signal is travelling down them(which can affect speed). If they are not required for ADSL then filter at the master socket. I'm not sure why you are worrying about this, if you have a BTO engineer visit they should know all of this & sort it for you! Oh, & pin 3 should be connected, many phones still need it & it has ZERO ill effect on the connection if you have an ADSL/vDSL faceplate or later NTE5 with bell wire filter.
      run-IT-direct, For all your networking, ADSL & telecom requirements.

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      Re: VDSL Faceplate wiring concerns - Need I do anything?

      I'm curious to know if you think it would make any difference to my sync and connection speed if I were to replace, or even ask BT to replace that short run of cable with some Cat5e instead
      Provided the existing cable is proper telephone twisted pair cable, it will make no difference. To be honest I don't think using Cat5e anywhere in place of the proper phone cable does anything at all for your speed. It may give a bit more physical protection in exposed positions than standard cable, but that is all.

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.





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      Re: VDSL Faceplate wiring concerns - Need I do anything?

      Quote Originally Posted by Isitme View Post
      So if you take Infinity 1 you get one of the new Version 5 Super Hubs, but if you take 2 or 3 you get a separate modem, presumably with the older Ver 4 Hub which does not have a built in modem. Seems you are better starting with BTI 1 to get the good router then upgrade later to BTI 2 or 3.
      Actually, from what I've read, the HH5 is provided with all Infinity products. The HH4 is supplied where a BT customer chooses to take BT's ADSL2+ BB service, rather than Infinity.

      How can I get a new BT Home Hub? | Help | BT.com Help

      However, I understand what you are saying, why would I need an additional BTO modem if the HH5 has a vDSL one built in?
      Last edited by Miracle_Boy66; 03-03-14 at 01:50 PM.

     

     
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