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    In an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre?

    This is a discussion on In an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre? within the Sky Broadband (Fibre) Help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Originally Posted by Scubbie When Sky does launch an FTTP product they will also need to have another new router ...

    1. #11
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      Re: In an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre?

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      When Sky does launch an FTTP product they will also need to have another new router as the Sky Hub SR101 could not support speeds above 100mb. In reality I have pushed it as high as I could with my current setup and only managed a throughput of ~80mb/s, which is normal for a 100mb LAN.
      It's interesting you say that as my ISP (PlusNet) supplied me with the same router they give to all FTTC customers (Technicolor TG582N). That router has come under a lot of criticism as people say it can not handle wireless speeds well at all. I questioned why I was supplied with router that is ultimately not destined for FTTP speeds, and was told that was all they supplied now for the trials. So I went out and bought an Asus router - capable of handling up to 1 Gbit WAN and LAN.

      The Sky Hub SR101 can handle most of the FTTP variants offered by BT Openreach at the moment (40/2, 40/10, 40/15, 80/20, 100/15 and 100/30) it's just the 110/15, 330/20 and 300/30 variants that it would not be able to cope with. In fact my next door neighbour got put on the 300/30 trial with BT Infinity and uses a 6 year old laptop with a 802.11G wireless connection and pays 19.99 a month - talk about a complete waste of bandwidth!

      I still cannot understand why Sky cannot offer the FTTP speed variants which it already offers FTTC customers. Unless there is a techincal reason with their equipment, it just doesn't make commerical sense. BT is virtually giving away FTTP by pricing it the same as FTTC - they have spend millions investing in it, yet the uptake is quite poor. I had a long conversation with the boss of Superfast Broadband at Openreach recently and told him part of the poor uptake is because you are failing to get the likes of Sky on board. Apparently there was a big meeting at BT's test facility recently demonstrating fibre to all the ISPs and no one from Sky was even present. I would want to know why if I was a manager at BT.


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    3. #12
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      Re: In an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre?

      I have no idea why someone from Sky was not present, but there has been a trial in the South Harrow area. I do not know what the current state of this trial is though.

      All I can say is that I hope that Sky will jump on board with FTTP and that the equipment which that are installing around the country to cope with FTTC will also be able to cope with FTTP.

      As for the Sky Hub coping with connection speeds such as 100/15 or 100/30, I am not so sure. My own tests were using the Sky Hub's WiFi to copy some files off a NAS to my Laptop. Doing the same test with the DGND3700 and WNDR3800 I was able to achieve a far better result.

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    4. #13
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      Re: In an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre?

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      As for the Sky Hub coping with connection speeds such as 100/15 or 100/30, I am not so sure. My own tests were using the Sky Hub's WiFi to copy some files off a NAS to my Laptop. Doing the same test with the DGND3700 and WNDR3800 I was able to achieve a far better result.
      2.4ghz or 5ghz?

      20 or 40mhz channel width?

      Number of spatial streams?

      Client chipset?

      Driver version?

      Operating system

      Wlan powersave settings?

      Distance from the Router?

      Antenna alignment?

      Number of other AP's on the same channel as you?

      Traffic load on the network that the time of testing?

      Traffic load on neighboring networks using the same channel at the time of testing?

      Any non wi-fi interference sources?


      Sorry perhaps I'm being a bit over the top there, but the point I'm trying is they're lots of factors affecting wireless performance. Depending on the location and environment even something as simple as turning a laptop 90 degress to show someone something on the screen can make a noticeable difference in throughput

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      Re: In an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre?

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      I have no idea why someone from Sky was not present, but there has been a trial in the South Harrow area. I do not know what the current state of this trial is though.

      All I can say is that I hope that Sky will jump on board with FTTP and that the equipment which that are installing around the country to cope with FTTC will also be able to cope with FTTP.

      As for the Sky Hub coping with connection speeds such as 100/15 or 100/30, I am not so sure. My own tests were using the Sky Hub's WiFi to copy some files off a NAS to my Laptop. Doing the same test with the DGND3700 and WNDR3800 I was able to achieve a far better result.
      There are a lot of technical savvie people on the Plus Net forums reporting how poor the wireless is on their Technicolor router - all of them are on FTTC connections. Pretty much any WAN router from the likes of Netgear, Linksys, Asus and Zyxel are going to outperform ISP branded routers. But this does come at a cost which is worth it in my opinion. I am not a big believer of WiFI. It's fine for small devices like iPads/iPhones etc., but wired is far better for PCs/MAC/NAS. As soon as you encrypt WiFI, you lose speed. Then you have the problems of walls and interfence. My house has too many brick walls and screeded floors to make any reasonable sense of wireless.

      FTTP on demand is going to be really interesting when launched. It is going to be expensive, BUT you could have a scenario where a group of households get together and come to some agreement. Once one house has it, the installation cost is tiny - it's just a matter of splicing cables. Say it costs 3,000 to install and you have 15 homes, that works out to a shared cost of 200 a home. BT install one fibre cable that has 4 fibres to a house, but only one is used by BT. Each fibre can carry ridiculous speeds (10Gbit as recently demonstrated by BT). I think BT were talking about around 20% of the country eventually being on FTTP. Given the speeds available (and I expect 0.5Gbps and 1Gbps to be launched next year), there is going to have to be some serious upgrading of ISP backbone capacity.

      I just wish I could do more to convince Sky to get involved. They were slow in the uptake of FTTC and it's looking the same for FTTP

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      Re: In an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre?

      I appreciate what you are saying there.

      The tests were some time apart, but used the same Laptop with the same Wireless adaptor, in roughly the same position/distance. The LAN was otherwise reasonably quiet at the time of the tests.

      The DGND3700 & WNDR3800 were both set up with 300mb WiFi (40Mhz bandwidth) and the WiFi adaptor in the Laptop supports up to 450mb/s.

      Remember that the specification of the Sky Hub SR101 is only for a 144mb WiFi on the 2.4GHz channels using only a 20MHz bandwidth and a 100mb LAN. Both the DGND3700 and WNDR3800 both support 1Gbit LAN and 300mb WiFi on both 2.4GHz and 5GHz channels. This would be on a 40MHz bandwidth.

      My Laptop has an Intel 6300 Wireless adaptor.

      Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro: Connected at 80,000 kbps / 20,000 kbps
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      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

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      Re: In an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre?

      Quote Originally Posted by dragon2611 View Post
      2.4ghz or 5ghz?

      Sorry perhaps I'm being a bit over the top there, but the point I'm trying is they're lots of factors affecting wireless performance. Depending on the location and environment even something as simple as turning a laptop 90 degress to show someone something on the screen can make a noticeable difference in throughput
      As I said above, wireless really isn't for performance networking. With wired you know what you're going to get - with wireless it can vary so much. Hardware manufacturers market great speeds, but those are very rarely achievable.

      - - - Updated - - -

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      I appreciate what you are saying there.

      The tests were some time apart, but used the same Laptop with the same Wireless adaptor, in roughly the same position/distance. The LAN was otherwise reasonably quiet at the time of the tests.

      The DGND3700 & WNDR3800 were both set up with 300mb WiFi (40Mhz bandwidth) and the WiFi adaptor in the Laptop supports up to 450mb/s.

      Remember that the specification of the Sky Hub SR101 is only for a 144mb WiFi on the 2.4GHz channels using only a 20MHz bandwidth and a 100mb LAN. Both the DGND3700 and WNDR3800 both support 1Gbit LAN and 300mb WiFi on both 2.4GHz and 5GHz channels. This would be on a 40MHz bandwidth.

      My Laptop has an Intel 6300 Wireless adaptor.
      Going a bit OT here, but any idea who makes the new SR101?

    8. #17
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      Re: In an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre?

      Quote Originally Posted by AndyHCZ View Post
      There are a lot of technical savvie people on the Plus Net forums reporting how poor the wireless is on their Technicolor router - all of them are on FTTC connections. Pretty much any WAN router from the likes of Netgear, Linksys, Asus and Zyxel are going to outperform ISP branded routers. But this does come at a cost which is worth it in my opinion. I am not a big believer of WiFI. It's fine for small devices like iPads/iPhones etc., but wired is far better for PCs/MAC/NAS. As soon as you encrypt WiFI, you lose speed. Then you have the problems of walls and interfence. My house has too many brick walls and screeded floors to make any reasonable sense of wireless.
      Certainly reading some of the Netgear forums, there are a lot of people seriously pushing their WiFi connections.

      I would certainly agree that in many areas and home that WiFi is not the best option. Personally much of my high demand equipment is connected via Ethernet and works on a 1Gbit LAN, with 1Gbit adaptors where possible.

      However for convenience my two Laptops mostly work via WiFi.

      Quote Originally Posted by AndyHCZ View Post
      FTTP on demand is going to be really interesting when launched. It is going to be expensive, BUT you could have a scenario where a group of households get together and come to some agreement. Once one house has it, the installation cost is tiny - it's just a matter of splicing cables. Say it costs 3,000 to install and you have 15 homes, that works out to a shared cost of 200 a home. BT install one fibre cable that has 4 fibres to a house, but only one is used by BT. Each fibre can carry ridiculous speeds (10Gbit as recently demonstrated by BT). I think BT were talking about around 20% of the country eventually being on FTTP. Given the speeds available (and I expect 0.5Gbps and 1Gbps to be launched next year), there is going to have to be some serious upgrading of ISP backbone capacity.
      Strange that you should use the figure of 15 homes. The trunk telephone cable carries telephone lines for 10 properties.

      What is important too, for those new to FTTP, is that the telephone is also connected to the BTO Modem as your copper connection is 'retired'. I am guessing that yours might have been removed. This consequences of this are that you need to have your electric connected in order to make a telephone call.

      Certainly with regards to the backhaul and the future, there is a huge amount of development to come and a huge amount of investment still to come.

      Quote Originally Posted by AndyHCZ View Post
      I just wish I could do more to convince Sky to get involved. They were slow in the uptake of FTTC and it's looking the same for FTTP
      They too a long time to launch their FTTC product range, so I'm not totally surprised.

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      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

    9. #18
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      Re: In an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre?

      Quote Originally Posted by AndyHCZ View Post
      Going a bit OT here, but any idea who makes the new SR101?
      The Sky Hub SR101 was designed and made in house by Sky.

      I am guessing, but since Sky bought the Amstrad brand and factories, it was probably made within one of them.

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      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

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      Re: In an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre?

      As soon as Sky decide they will offer FTTP on Demand I shall be ordering.

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      Re: In an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre?

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post

      Strange that you should use the figure of 15 homes. The trunk telephone cable carries telephone lines for 10 properties.

      What is important too, for those new to FTTP, is that the telephone is also connected to the BTO Modem as your copper connection is 'retired'. I am guessing that yours might have been removed. This consequences of this are that you need to have your electric connected in order to make a telephone call.
      Due to the small size of the fibre tubing, there can run more FTTP connections. I think the fibre splitter can carry up to 220 homes (or something like that), so BT would survey the area and interest before deciding what to put in. I cannot stress how tiny the fibre is though - I think it's 0.45mm according to the splicing tool the engineer was using. It looked like a human hair and the speeds such a small thing can carry is beyond belief.

      Voice of FTTP has yet to take off. The ONT has space for two telephone line connections (I've attached some pics of the ONT and external fibre connection box). In an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre?-photo-6-.jpgIn an FTTP area with a Sky enabled exchange but unable to get Sky Fibre?-photo-5-.jpg

      Basically BT leave the original copper cabling in place (this must have some scrap value!), but there is the future capacity to run the normal telephone lines over fibre. I am a bit surprised there's not been a push for this by BT, but I am still with Sky Talk for the line rental/talk package and not sure how this would even work.

      One of the reasons for the ONT having a backup power supply (battery powered on the right), is in the event of a power cut, you would lose broadband and phone if running voice over fibre. Apparently BT have asked Huawei to intergrate the battery backup with the ONT to save space as people were complaining about the space the ONT + battery backup were taking up.

     

     
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