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    Some fibre queries from a potential fibre buyer

    This is a discussion on Some fibre queries from a potential fibre buyer within the Sky Broadband (Fibre) Help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Just a couple questions regarding fibre from someone who is thinking about upgrading from Sky unlimited. - The equipment, at ...

    1. #1
      skyiron34's Avatar
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      Some fibre queries from a potential fibre buyer

      Just a couple questions regarding fibre from someone who is thinking about upgrading from Sky unlimited.

      - The equipment, at the moment I have a draytek 120 to an asus rt n16. rt n16 does not do ppoa but the draytek converts the ppoa to ppoe for it. I know that I will have to use the new modem for sure, what about skys router? Can I use the new modem directly with my asus rtn16 router? Or will It have to do be a 3 box setup i.e. New modem > Draytek 120 > Asus router

      - The speed: the lower fibre package is 40/2 right? Are there any plans to bump that to 40/10? If not, do you think sky will be flexible with the caps, say lowering download by 5, increasing upload by 5 ?

      -Error checking, can things like crc, hec errors etc.. be seen from the new modem ?

      -If a customer isn't happy with the new service, how long do they have to cancel? I'm guessing cancellation won't mean an installation refund?

      - Does the standard sky router have QoS capabilities? And How is it generally?

      Thanks a bunch!


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    3. #2
      tomthered's Avatar
      tomthered is offline Sky User Member
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      Re: Some fibre queries from a potential fibre buyer

      I am sure you have to hack your modem to get stats. As for the rest I am sure Scubbie will be along shortly

    4. #3
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      Re: Some fibre queries from a potential fibre buyer

      Quote Originally Posted by tomthered View Post
      I am sure you have to hack your modem to get stats. As for the rest I am sure Scubbie will be along shortly
      Who? Where?

      Quote Originally Posted by skyiron34 View Post
      - The equipment, at the moment I have a draytek 120 to an asus rt n16. rt n16 does not do ppoa but the draytek converts the ppoa to ppoe for it. I know that I will have to use the new modem for sure, what about skys router? Can I use the new modem directly with my asus rtn16 router? Or will It have to do be a 3 box setup i.e. New modem > Draytek 120 > Asus router
      From what I can see from searching, the Asus RT N16 is a cable router. Currently only Billion have written some firmware to allow their router to be connected directly to the BTO Modem in order to allow people to connect to Sky's servers.

      This means that you would have to connect up the Asus RT N16 to the Sky router via it's WAN port if you want it to manage your home network. The Draytek 120 is an ADSL Modem and would not be used. Instead your setup would look something like this:

      BTO Modem --> Sagem 2504N Router (with WiFi disabled) --> Asus RT N16

      You will also have to configure the Sagem & Asus routers as shown in the guide in the thread linked below:

      http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/askin...nk-dir613.html

      Quote Originally Posted by skyiron34 View Post
      - The speed: the lower fibre package is 40/2 right? Are there any plans to bump that to 40/10? If not, do you think sky will be flexible with the caps, say lowering download by 5, increasing upload by 5 ?
      We are hoping that Sky will launch a 40/10 product but have no confirmed news of this. This means that you will need to keep an eye on the forums for any news.

      Quote Originally Posted by skyiron34 View Post
      -Error checking, can things like crc, hec errors etc.. be seen from the new modem ?
      There are two Modems being supplied by BTO. One can easily be hacked, whilst the other isn't so easy. Provided that you get the easy one to hack, then you can access the stats which allow you to see all the information you are asking and more.

      Quote Originally Posted by skyiron34 View Post
      -If a customer isn't happy with the new service, how long do they have to cancel? I'm guessing cancellation won't mean an installation refund?
      You have 30 days to cancel. However if Sky cannot deliver the minimum estimated speed then you have up to 3 months to cancel.

      As for a refund of the installation fee I can't comment on that. You would need to ask when ordering from Sky. To date most people have had free installations and they have only actually started charging for new orders since last week.

      Quote Originally Posted by skyiron34 View Post
      - Does the standard sky router have QoS capabilities? And How is it generally?
      Hmmm..... least said the better?

      Seriously though, the Sagem 2504N is proving to be very stable. It's QoS isn't particularly brilliant as there is no option to customise it. The WiFi is limited to 144mb/s. Double NAT isn't allowed.

      Personally I prefer my own router to anything that Sky offers.

      PlusNet Fibre since Jan 2021
      Previously Sky Fibre & Sky BB since 2010.

    5. #4
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      Re: Some fibre queries from a potential fibre buyer

      To connect to Sky fibre the router has to be capable of using Sky's implementation of MER. I don't think the Vigor or the Asus can do this.

      At the moment Sky supply up to 40Mb down and 2 Mb up, there is a hope that the upload will be increased, but this has yet to be confirmed. Sky also do Fibre Pro which is up to 80Mb down and 20 Mb up. This may suit you better.

      There is only one 3rd party manufacturer who has managed to produce firmware capable of connecting to Sky Fibre and that is Billion. 3rd Party firmware such as DD_WRT can be used on some routers to allow it, but not all. You would have to check if the Asus is capable of being flashed.

      The Sky router does not support proper QoS and is very restricted in what can be done with it. The most that can be said is that it does the job for many, if you want a bit more you will not get it form any Sky router.

      TomD


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    6. #5
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      Re: Some fibre queries from a potential fibre buyer

      If you get the easily hackable modem (huawei HG612) you can play with the QoS once hacked I.e turn it off to gain a little extra upload speed. The modem also shows any CRC, FEC & HEC errors.

      The sky router is stable but has very limited firmware on it. Personally all I use it for is DHCP and NAT the wireless/wired hardware is all handled by my AEBS.
      AirPort Extreme + Sky Fibre Guide | Mac OSX Automator for xDSL stats for HG612 & Vigor 130

      Hauwei Cab > VMG1312-B10A > Ubiquiti UniFi | 58301/12298


    7. #6
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      Re: Some fibre queries from a potential fibre buyer

      Hopeless with forums & quoting so apologies for the clumsy format of the reply

      @ Scubbie :
      - The two BTO modems, what are the differences besides difficulty of hacking it? no control over which we get?
      -The guide you've lined me to, I read it thinking that putting a cable router in the skys DMZ would still mean double NAT issues might occur, but you described the sky router as "Double NAT isn't allowed", this threw me, what does that mean ?

      -Have many people adopted the 3 box setup?

      @ isitme :
      -The asus is capable of DD_WRT and tomato firmware. One of the reasons I brought it a few months back was to get tomato firmware on there and set up a QoS system that actually works. So your saying with DD_WRT its possible to connect the router directly to the BTO modem ? ( both the BTO modems? ) Any idea how complex it is? I've left DD_WRT / tomato for a few months so I could focus on them after my exams... since I knew I would have to read and learn a lot to be able to use them. Its deep water for me... so much I don't understand yet.. so I'm cautious with this option.

      Thanks for the speedy reply all

    8. #7
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      Re: Some fibre queries from a potential fibre buyer

      Quote Originally Posted by Isitme View Post
      There is only one 3rd party manufacturer who has managed to produce firmware capable of connecting to Sky Fibre and that is Billion. 3rd Party firmware such as DD_WRT can be used on some routers to allow it, but not all. You would have to check if the Asus is capable of being flashed.
      Just in case anyone has one knocking around. Later on this week or early next week, Billion are releasing beta firmware for their BiPAC 8200N VDSL2 router which supports Sky's variant of MER.

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      Re: Some fibre queries from a potential fibre buyer

      I have the 3 box setup. BTO modem > sky router > airport extreme base station

      Due to double NAT I have the sky router handling DHCP assignment, static ip addresses and My airport extreme handles the wifi and hard connections. As far as I can tell to can not turn off the NAT in the sky router. I still get double NAT even if my airport is in the DMZ.

      Some people have had luck with routers running DD_WRT firmware in which case their setup would be BTO modem > DD_WRT router. On my iPad so searching is a bit of a pain but if you have a look around the fibre section their are some threads relating to DD-WRT
      AirPort Extreme + Sky Fibre Guide | Mac OSX Automator for xDSL stats for HG612 & Vigor 130

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    10. #9
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      Re: Some fibre queries from a potential fibre buyer

      Quote Originally Posted by skyiron34 View Post
      Hopeless with forums & quoting so apologies for the clumsy format of the reply
      Nowt wrong with your reply. Everyone has different styles.

      Quote Originally Posted by skyiron34 View Post
      @ Scubbie :
      - The two BTO modems, what are the differences besides difficulty of hacking it? no control over which we get?
      The BTO Engineer will pick which ever he has in his van. Someone did suggest that it depends on the specific equipment in your Fibre Cabinet in order to get the best connection, but you won't have a choice over this either.

      Quote Originally Posted by skyiron34 View Post
      -The guide you've lined me to, I read it thinking that putting a cable router in the skys DMZ would still mean double NAT issues might occur, but you described the sky router as "Double NAT isn't allowed", this threw me, what does that mean ?
      My current setup on an ADSL connection is as follows:

      Netgear DGN2000 --> Netgear WNDR3800

      I do have the Netgear DM111P ADSL Modem but it kept loosing the connection. My DGN2000's WiFi died so I use it purely as a Modem, with the WNDR3800 in its DMZ and connected via the WAN Ethernet port. I can swap the DGN2000 for my Sagem 2304n, but in both cases the WNDR3800 handles my LAN.

      I have a couple of IP Cameras. When the Sagem 2304n is used I can't use their dynamic address to access them from within my home network, but I can use the internal IP Address. When the DGN2000 is used I can use both. This is the only practical problem that I have.

      Quote Originally Posted by skyiron34 View Post
      -Have many people adopted the 3 box setup?
      Quite a few on the forum use this configuration. However more people are now looking to purchase the Billion routers which can have the new firmware.

      Quote Originally Posted by skyiron34 View Post
      @ isitme :
      -The asus is capable of DD_WRT and tomato firmware. One of the reasons I brought it a few months back was to get tomato firmware on there and set up a QoS system that actually works. So your saying with DD_WRT its possible to connect the router directly to the BTO modem ? ( both the BTO modems? ) Any idea how complex it is? I've left DD_WRT / tomato for a few months so I could focus on them after my exams... since I knew I would have to read and learn a lot to be able to use them. Its deep water for me... so much I don't understand yet.. so I'm cautious with this option.
      Apologies, I forgot about the DD-WRT Firmware. This would certainly help a great deal. No one has mentioned any success with the Tomato firmware to date.

      Instructions for making suitable amendments are in the Fibre section of this forum. I could install the DD-WRT firmware on my WNDR3800 and several members have the WNDR3700, but I too haven't looked into this for now. Mostly because in my case there is no sense of urgency.

      The posts do make it look like it is relatively easy though.

      Quote Originally Posted by skyiron34 View Post
      Thanks for the speedy reply all
      This is what the form is for.

      PlusNet Fibre since Jan 2021
      Previously Sky Fibre & Sky BB since 2010.

     

     

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