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    Sky Fibre Broadband and ADT monitored burglar alarm incompatible?

    This is a discussion on Sky Fibre Broadband and ADT monitored burglar alarm incompatible? within the Sky Broadband (Fibre) Help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; i could be wrong but back before Sky launched fiber and i was spending alot of time reading up on ...

    1. #21
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      Re: Sky Fibre Broadband and ADT monitored burglar alarm incompatible?

      i could be wrong but back before Sky launched fiber and i was spending alot of time reading up on lots of stuff regarding FTTC from the openreach site and such im sure i remember reading somewhere in all the FTTC documents something about FTTC and its compatability with alarms, it was a while ago now and ive read quite a bit of stuff over the last few months so i could be mistaken and it could just be a Sky related thing as has been sugested but it might also be that its a general FTTC problem and doesnt work well with alarms.
      This would also explain why the BTO engineer left the alarm wire disconnected after the FTTC install.


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    3. #22
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      Yes it would probably be useful to find out how monitored alarms work and interaact with the phone line
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    4. #23
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      Re: Sky Fibre Broadband and ADT monitored burglar alarm incompatible?

      As I understand it, because the behaviour of the Sky Network equipment is slightly different to BT's, it can cause issues with some monitored alarm systems. And you also have some services like BT Redcare which obviously can't work at all on Sky network.

    5. #24
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      Re: Sky Fibre Broadband and ADT monitored burglar alarm incompatible?

      Quote Originally Posted by buddbuttocks View Post
      As I understand it, because the behaviour of the Sky Network equipment is slightly different to BT's, it can cause issues with some monitored alarm systems. And you also have some services like BT Redcare which obviously can't work at all on Sky network.
      Thanks, but is this anywhere I can research? I've been on ThinkBroadband and OpenReach and there are people saying that there shouldn't be problem as it is just a standard phone line that just calls back to the ARC. I got ADT to test the line multiple times last night and it was all fine.

    6. #25
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      Re: Sky Fibre Broadband and ADT monitored burglar alarm incompatible?

      Other than the technicalities of a line, since all equipment which connects to the telephone line must be BABT approved, it should be assumed that all alarms would be too, there is an issue with regards to a guaranteed level of service.

      Perhaps sky do not wish to guarantee a response time suitable to get the line repaired in order to help maintain a connection for a home alarm? Faster responses from BTO would result in more expensive call outs.

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    7. #26
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      Re: Sky Fibre Broadband and ADT monitored burglar alarm incompatible?

      Hi Everyone
      I haven't an answer myself but I saw this on a Q & A popular site

      Q:Why are some ADT Home security alarm systems not compatible with Sky Fibre Broadband.

      A:Alarm systems require analog phone lines,if Sky fiber works anything like FiOS, they will be taking out your old analog phone service when they install the Equipment, and replace it with a digital service that offers a gateway to analog phones in the home.




      Last edited by marty2014; 30-05-12 at 09:25 PM. Reason: error in text
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      Re: Sky Fibre Broadband and ADT monitored burglar alarm incompatible?

      A:Alarm systems require analog phone lines,if Sky fiber works anything like FiOS, they will be taking out your old analog phone service when they install the Equipment, and replace it with a digital service that offers a gateway to analog phones in the home.
      Not really relevant here. FiOS is a FTTP/H product. FTTC still uses copper wire for the phone for the connection back to the exchange.

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    9. #28
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      Re: Sky Fibre Broadband and ADT monitored burglar alarm incompatible?

      Hi everyone
      Hope the article below goes some way to helping answer some questions regarding monitored alarms

      From the Aviva web site

      The telecommunications industry is currently moving to adopt two new transmission concepts, Next Generation Networks (NGN) and Next Generation Access (NGA).


      NGN refers to the use of digital Internet Protocol (IP) technology in place of analogue switched circuit (PSTN) technology within telephone networks/exchange equipment.


      NGA refers to new ways of connecting customers to the NGN, i.e. by means of optic fibre cables from exchanges to roadside cabinets, called Fibre To The Cabinet (FTTC); or directly into customer's premises, called Fibre to The Premises (FTTP).


      The use of NGN/NGA arises partly because they reflect the latest telecommunications technology, and otherwise as a means by which internet capacity/access speeds can be significantly boosted.


      However, NGN/NGA could affect many intruder alarm systems signalling to Alarm Receiving Centres (ARCs); those most heavily affected being the many tens of thousands of older intruder alarm systems that use a digital communicator* (Digicom) signalling device. They may also affect the, relatively few, fire alarm systems that may also use a Digicom.


      * Digicoms are so named because they send alarm information as coded digits, 1, 2, 6 etc, not because they use digital technology.


      Background to NGN/NGA


      As the UK's largest telecommunications provider, British Telecom (BT) Wholesale are instrumental in these changes, their NGN (21st Century Network - 21CN) and NGA (Infinity) programmes potentially affecting both their direct customers and customers of other Telecommunication providers (*Telco's) who may rent services (network links and/or local lines, i.e. exchanges to customer's premises) from them.


      * Important Note.
      Most Telco's, e.g. companies like Talk Talk, Virgin Media, etc commenced their operations using the new NGN &/or NGA technology. As such, if you decide to swap your telephony services to them you need to ensure that their service is compatible with any signalling devices used by your intruder/fire alarm system to connect you to an ARC.
      Nonetheless, some Telco's advise users not to connect alarm systems to their networks.


      Will my telephone equipment need upgrading?


      In general no. NGN (21CN) upgrades should only require new telephone equipment to be fitted in exchanges. Most existing Customer Premises Equipment (CPE) should, with the exception of some, typically older, Digicoms continue to work as normal.


      What is the impact on alarm systems of NGN?


      There are two areas of impact on alarm systems connected to an ARC, these being:


      The physical break in service whilst lines are transferred (Migrated) from old to new exchange equipment. This will usually be of short duration and take place overnight when networks are quieter. It may have an immediate impact on security, as it will affect any type of alarm system connection, and of course the overnight period is when most alarm systems are in use!
      After Migration, when existing analogue CPE will still be in use between customer's premises and the local exchange, data sent by it will need to be converted to IP transmission at the exchange, be converted back to analogue at its destination and possible also converted several times en route. This conversion increases the end to end data transmission time (‘round trip delay'). The increased delay is small; but after migration non NGN compliant CPE, typically an older Digicom, may not recognise that a call has been connected, so could hang up and redial - possibly continuously.
      Which Digicoms will be affected?


      Any Digicom with a tolerance to round trip delay below the NGN (21CN) levels could be affected. However, without suitable testing Digicom suppliers do not reliably know which Digicoms are going to be affected or not.


      What is the impact on alarm systems of NGN?


      NGA is likely to be restricted to cities/major urban areas in the short term, but ultimately will spread.


      In terms of migration/installation, it is only likely to create the same brief problems as NGN (21CN) migration.


      In terms of post migration effects, FTTC is unlikely to create any issues for alarm signalling (other than round trip delay compatibility issues for Digicoms); as existing copper cables from the cabinet to a customer's premises will remain. However, where FTTP is implemented it is possible that copper cables from a cabinet to customer's premises will either not exist (new built premises) or existing cables may be removed, meaning that both Digicoms and other types of alarm signalling equipment may cease to work. In such cases alarm users either need to retain an existing copper cable link to the exchange for alarm use, or select a signalling product that can use fibre links.


      What are the options?


      Alarm users should talk to their alarm companies about this issue and, where a Digicom is in use, consider a ‘future proof' upgrade now.


      In doing so it should be borne in mind that Digicoms are a relatively insecure form of signalling; with any break in service, e.g. intruders cutting a telephone line, not usually being known to the ARC. Rather than using a new Digicom it may be as cost effective, and certainly more secure, to opt for a form of alarm signalling that incorporates frequent monitoring, and fault reporting to the ARC, of the availability of the signalling link(s).


      Will this affect insurance cover?


      If a policy contains an Intruder Alarm or Automatic Fire Alarm condition you may find that failure to maintain the alarm in full working order could jeopardise any claim that may occur related to that failure.


      In addition you may be required to obtain insurer agreement for any changes to the system, e.g. a change of signalling. In this regard insurers are likely to prefer/recommend signalling products that have good fault reporting times, i.e. those that will report faults with a performance at, or near, to ‘grade' 4.


      Key Action Steps


      Watch out for news of NGN (21CN) or NGA enhancements in your area, especially those advised by your telecommunications provider
      If unsure of your current alarm signalling, ask you alarm company to check and confirm it now
      If a Digicom is in use, ask your alarm company to either provide a written statement of NGN (21CN) compliance or disclose their plans for a NGN compliant upgrade
      Rather than installing a NGN compliant Digicom, consider the benefits of a better (fully monitored) signalling product and check proposed replacement alarm signalling with any interested insurer
      If retaining a current Digicom, arrange for an immediate post NGN (21CN) migration check
      Don't change your telecommunication provider without checking the possible impact on any current alarm signalling with your alarm company.
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      Re: Sky Fibre Broadband and ADT monitored burglar alarm incompatible?

      Just an update:

      Unfortunately, the Sky Fibre Team has decided to roll me back to ADSL mainly based on the reasons in that Aviva Risk Management article. They are worried about the round trip delays and the possible degredation of service due to the alarm on their 21cn network.

      However, I have sought advice from ADT and the British Security Industry Association (BSIA) and the pointers are there to show that all ADT alarms are in fact compatible with 21cn / NGN networks.

      There is a significant amount of information on the BSIA web site here. They had the same concerns as the Aviva article and explained it here. So the BSIA performed controlled tests of many alarm systems and 21cn networks regarding the timing problems. The results (XLS document) show that my alarm system (the ADT Honeywell Galaxy G2) passed these tests and is 21cn compatible.

      I phoned up ADT and they are trying to forward me the certifications from Honeywell as well as their parent company Tyco.

      The thing is, will Sky listen and take this into consideration?

      I have sent the Fibre team an email but have yet to hear back.

    11. #30
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      Re: Sky Fibre Broadband and ADT monitored burglar alarm incompatible?

      You may have to take this issue up with the Executive Team as it may be something that the people in the Fibre Team do not have the powers to authorise.

      email : jeremy dot darroch at bskyb dot com

      I would suggest that you get the Fibre Team to respond promptly so that you can remain on SFU.

      Well done to ADT for being willing to get you copies of their certificates of compliance. This should go a long way towards getting a positive result.

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