Your forum username:
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up


    Welcome to Sky User - The Unofficial Support Forum for everything Sky! - Proudly helping over 65k members.


    Advertisement

    Page 14 of 16 FirstFirst ... 41213141516 LastLast
    Results 131 to 140 of 153
    Like Tree26Likes

    Believe in better

    This is a discussion on Believe in better within the Sky Broadband (Fibre) Help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Originally Posted by Scubbie Sky knew that BTO were doubling the speeds. They knew that BT Retail would introduce an ...

    1. #131
      fazedup's Avatar
      fazedup is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: Chippenham
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro
      Router: Sagem F@ST 2504n
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Location
      Wiltshire
      Posts
      332
      Thanks
      20
      Thanked 24 Times in 23 Posts

      Re: Believe in better

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      Sky knew that BTO were doubling the speeds. They knew that BT Retail would introduce an 80/20 product. They knew that VM had doubled their speeds. If they want to be so conservative and let the competition jump first, then I guess that they can't be accused of wanting to dominate the UK for broadband, like they are for TV.
      To be fair, Sky are up against competition which has their own infrastructures and technologies. VM flagship products are independant, so can be delivered and deployed to their own timetable.

      BTO sings a tune, and the rest of the ISP's have to dance to it, Including Sky. So it's not the case that, 3 years ago Sky should have been planning for these fantastic products. This is a problem that will never, ever change, as long as Sky are forced to re-sell certain parts of a BTO Product.

      Whilst BTO and BT Retail are technically seperate companies, they all fall under umbrella and fairly closely knit. So if BTO bump up the speeds to 80/20 and subsequently the prices, BT Retail will be first to know about it, have systems in place to provision new products and can absorb this cost and offer the higher speeds without an increase in price to their customers, As it's all going into the same coffers at the end of the day. Not really a level playing field IMO.

      I agree that Sky seem to have been pretty slow out of the blocks on this occasion, this price hike from BTO has obviously caught them off guard, but the bottom line is they have to make this product financially viable. The last thing I would want or expect from Sky, would be chuck an 80/20 product to keep up with the jones's, that wasn't making a profit. The knock on effect would be, less investment in their own network, lack of bandwidth in the future and tarnishing what i regard to be, a pretty damn good service.

      If however, Sky decided to run fibre to their own street cabs, and their own copper to each customers property, then we would see a truely unbundled service, independant of a supplier.
      But that's not going to happen anytime soon, so we're stuck in the BTO trap, hence these problems.


      "...We're through the looking-glass here people, none of us have ever done anything like this before... except Mike, who as we all know, once stole a Tank and tried to invade Paris!"


    2. Advertisement
    3. #132
      Scubbie's Avatar
      Scubbie is offline Sky User Moderator
      Exchange: 02392
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sky Q Hub ER110
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Mar 2010
      Location
      Near Portsmouth
      Posts
      28,201
      Thanks
      844
      Thanked 2,223 Times in 2,092 Posts

      Re: Believe in better

      Quote Originally Posted by fazedup View Post
      BTO sings a tune, and the rest of the ISP's have to dance to it, Including Sky. So it's not the case that, 3 years ago Sky should have been planning for these fantastic products. This is a problem that will never, ever change, as long as Sky are forced to re-sell certain parts of a BTO Product.
      It is entirely possible for Sky to negotiate with VM to use their cable system as well. I am not familiar with VM to know if their systems connect through the BTO Telephone Exchange. If this is the case, then it would be a lot better for some Sky customers who don't yet have Fibre, but do have VM Cable.

      Quote Originally Posted by fazedup View Post
      Whilst BTO and BT Retail are technically seperate companies, they all fall under umbrella and fairly closely knit. So if BTO bump up the speeds to 80/20 and subsequently the prices, BT Retail will be first to know about it, have systems in place to provision new products and can absorb this cost and offer the higher speeds without an increase in price to their customers, As it's all going into the same coffers at the end of the day. Not really a level playing field IMO.
      I realise that BTO will discuss things heavily with BT Retail with regards to product development. After all, BT Retail is their number one customer. BTW recently announced price changes. It is entirely possible the BT Retail knew about them before hand.

      Quote Originally Posted by fazedup View Post
      I agree that Sky seem to have been pretty slow out of the blocks on this occasion, this price hike from BTO has obviously caught them off guard, but the bottom line is they have to make this product financially viable. The last thing I would want or expect from Sky, would be chuck an 80/20 product to keep up with the jones's, that wasn't making a profit. The knock on effect would be, less investment in their own network, lack of bandwidth in the future and tarnishing what i regard to be, a pretty damn good service.
      Agreed.

      Quote Originally Posted by fazedup View Post
      If however, Sky decided to run fibre to their own street cabs, and their own copper to each customers property, then we would see a truely unbundled service, independant of a supplier.
      But that's not going to happen anytime soon, so we're stuck in the BTO trap, hence these problems.
      This would be very expensive. Consider the millions in payments alone from BDUK to upgrade the existing networks to support faster connections. Sky would be doing this almost from scratch. They would most likely need to build new buildings too to house the equipment in the exchange. Planning permission would need to be sought, where BTO has not had to do so. Such a project would most likely need to be done together with another ISP, perhaps more, to make it truly worth while.

      Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro: Connected at 80,000 kbps / 20,000 kbps
      Previous ADSL2+ Speed 19999 kbps 1153 kbps, Line Attenuation 17.5 db 6.9 db, Noise Margin 7.5 dB 8.7 dB
      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

    4. #133
      Fibreman's Avatar
      Fibreman is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: Horsham
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited
      Router: D-Link DSL-2640S
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Mar 2012
      Posts
      79
      Thanks
      6
      Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

      Re: Believe in better

      Quote Originally Posted by fazedup View Post
      BTO sings a tune, and the rest of the ISP's have to dance to it, Including Sky. So it's not the case that, 3 years ago Sky should have been planning for these fantastic products.
      I don't agree. BTO has been charging the communication companies the same annual price for a 40/2 profile since July, 2009 according to their price list that's publicly available:

      Up to 40Mbit/s downstream and up to 2Mbit/s upstream (including Simultaneous Provide) note 1 01/07/2009 31/08/2011 75.00 82.80
      Up to 40Mbit/s downstream and up to 2Mbit/s upstream (including Simultaneous Provide) note 1 01/09/2011 Special Offer - see Section 8.4 80.00 82.80
      Quote is from: Price List

    5. #134
      AdamBrunt's Avatar
      AdamBrunt is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: Godalming (THGG)
      Broadband ISP: Max
      Router: Netgear V1 DG834GT
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Oct 2006
      Posts
      261
      Thanks
      2
      Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

      Re: Believe in better

      Quote Originally Posted by Fibreman View Post
      I don't agree. BTO has been charging the communication companies the same annual price for a 40/2 profile since July, 2009 according to their price list that's publicly available:

      Up to 40Mbit/s downstream and up to 2Mbit/s upstream (including Simultaneous Provide) note 1 01/07/2009 31/08/2011 75.00 82.80
      Up to 40Mbit/s downstream and up to 2Mbit/s upstream (including Simultaneous Provide) note 1 01/09/2011 Special Offer - see Section 8.4 80.00 82.80
      Quote is from: Price List
      Flaming cheek ... Sky are charging customers 240 for something that cost them 80 ??

    6. #135
      NWLondoner's Avatar
      NWLondoner is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: Colindale
      Broadband ISP: BT Infinity 2
      Router: Non Sky Router
      Sky TV: Other
      Join Date
      Mar 2012
      Location
      London
      Posts
      113
      Thanks
      2
      Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
      That's capitalism my friend

    7. #136
      reddwarfcrew's Avatar
      reddwarfcrew is offline Sky User Moderator
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro
      Router: Sky Hub SR102
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Sep 2006
      Posts
      6,088
      Thanks
      32
      Thanked 93 Times in 86 Posts

      Re: Believe in better

      Quote Originally Posted by AdamBrunt View Post
      Flaming cheek ... Sky are charging customers 240 for something that cost them 80 ??
      How do you think that sky fund improving the back haul infrastructure and how they make a profit?

      Don't forget BT who also pay bto the same 80 charge their customers more.

    8. #137
      Fibreman's Avatar
      Fibreman is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: Horsham
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited
      Router: D-Link DSL-2640S
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Mar 2012
      Posts
      79
      Thanks
      6
      Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

      Re: Believe in better

      Quote Originally Posted by AdamBrunt View Post
      Flaming cheek ... Sky are charging customers 240 for something that cost them 80 ??
      First column is connection. Second column is yearly fee. Check out the link if you want to see how much more a comms company would have to pay to offer an 80/20 profile.

      I expect there's volume discounts that come into play that are not reflected in the excerpt.

    9. #138
      NewsreadeR's Avatar
      NewsreadeR is offline Site Founder
      Exchange: Marshalls Cross
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited
      Router: Sagem F@ST 2504n
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Aug 2006
      Location
      St Helens
      Posts
      22,227
      Thanks
      108
      Thanked 390 Times in 314 Posts
      Blog Entries
      48

      Re: Believe in better

      Quote Originally Posted by Fibreman View Post
      That's my point. Sky always catch-up. Why can't they be technology leaders instead?
      Because they don't play catch up. they invest and build their own as proven with the TV that they offer and their own state of the art network. They don't play short term, they plan for the long term.

      Anyway, rumours are abound that faster products are / maybe available come June ish - But noone told anyone that.
      ~ Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience ~

    10. The Following User Says Thank You to NewsreadeR For This Useful Post:

      fazedup (13-04-12)

    11. #139
      fazedup's Avatar
      fazedup is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: Chippenham
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro
      Router: Sagem F@ST 2504n
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Location
      Wiltshire
      Posts
      332
      Thanks
      20
      Thanked 24 Times in 23 Posts

      Re: Believe in better

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      It is entirely possible for Sky to negotiate with VM to use their cable system as well. I am not familiar with VM to know if their systems connect through the BTO Telephone Exchange. If this is the case, then it would be a lot better for some Sky customers who don't yet have Fibre, but do have VM Cable.
      Not sure about the feasibility of this, or even if the 2 technologies are compatible. My gut feeling is, that if this was a viable alternative, it would have been pursued before now.
      Not to mention, the BTO Fibre footprint will eventually, if it doesn't already, eclipse VM.

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      This would be very expensive. Consider the millions in payments alone from BDUK to upgrade the existing networks to support faster connections. Sky would be doing this almost from scratch. They would most likely need to build new buildings too to house the equipment in the exchange. Planning permission would need to be sought, where BTO has not had to do so. Such a project would most likely need to be done together with another ISP, perhaps more, to make it truly worth while.
      My case in point. Just as Sky dominates the subscription based TV market in the UK, be it directly through Sky or channels re-sold to VM etc., BTO will always dominate various aspects of the telecomms industry.
      BTO will never be a major player in the TV industry and Sky will always be re-selling somebody elses product in the telco business.

      Both companies have invested billions in their infrastructures and it's just not financially feasible for a competitor to enter a market which is to all intents and purposes, completely sewn up. The cost involved is just too great.

      Talking more generally for a moment, there's been quite a bit of Sky bashing over the last few days, to which I am guilty myself.
      I'm as hacked off as the next person that I can only get second, or even third rate FTTC speeds.

      But I think we all need to be a little patient and realistic about how quickly we expect Sky respond to their competitors.
      I'm sure most of you will agree, prior to FTTC, we were pretty happy with Sky. I'm almost certain they will get a handle on this and remain a very competative FTTC provider, on a par with the best the rest can offer.

      There are so many facets to this issue, it's just not that easy to say, well so-and-so is offering this, so why aren't you Sky?
      They can't just flick a switch without planning, Rome wasn't built in a day.

      For those that can't wait any longer, then naturally, choose your ISP and best of luck. Personally, in that position, i'd rather wait an additional 6 weeks and see what happens, than panic, jump ship and be tied in with another ISP for 18months. But that just my opinion.
      NewsreadeR and Scubbie like this.


      "...We're through the looking-glass here people, none of us have ever done anything like this before... except Mike, who as we all know, once stole a Tank and tried to invade Paris!"

    12. #140
      fazedup's Avatar
      fazedup is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: Chippenham
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro
      Router: Sagem F@ST 2504n
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Location
      Wiltshire
      Posts
      332
      Thanks
      20
      Thanked 24 Times in 23 Posts

      Re: Believe in better

      Quote Originally Posted by Fibreman View Post
      I don't agree. BTO has been charging the communication companies the same annual price for a 40/2 profile since July, 2009 according to their price list that's publicly available:
      Which ISP's were selling that product in great numbers in 2009?

      How many Fibre cabinets were live in 2009?
      NewsreadeR likes this.


      "...We're through the looking-glass here people, none of us have ever done anything like this before... except Mike, who as we all know, once stole a Tank and tried to invade Paris!"

     

     
    Page 14 of 16 FirstFirst ... 41213141516 LastLast

    Tags for this Thread

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •  
    SkyUser - Copyright © 2006-2020. SatDish and NewsreadeR | SkyUser is in no way affiliated with Sky Broadband / BSkyB
    RIPA NOTICE: NO CONSENT IS GIVEN FOR INTERCEPTION OF PAGE TRANSMISSION