Scottish Referendum

[Scubbie]

We tend to keep away from politics on this forum, but perhaps this is one worth bringing up.

Our membership is made up from people across Ireland (north and south), Wales, Scotland, Cornwall and England, as well as several who currently reside in Germany, Portugal, France, Spain and Greece. I suspect that there are a few others too, but you will have to forgive me if I haven't mentioned your country.

At this stage I do not think it fair to speculate as to whether or not the vote goes for Scotland becoming independent and what all the ramifications will be, but how about a couple of "what ifs"?

For example, Sky has call centres across the UK, including a couple of Northern Ireland, a new one in Ireland, some in England and a few in Scotland. How do you think this might affect things?

The flag of the UK is another topic. Originally the Union Jack (when flown on the Queen's premises or Naval Ships) was for the Royal Family. It symbolised the Kingdoms of England and Scotland (1606) and later the Union of the Kingdom of Ireland (1800), but this was for the King and Queens.

It was only formally adopted as the national flag by Parliament in 1908. It is therefore called the Union Flag when not on a Jackstaff or a Royal building.

So IMHO the road would be open to having two flags should Scotland gain independence from the rest of the UK. One to represent the Royal family's status as the head of state of the different kingdoms, the other to represent the remaining countries of the United Kingdom.

The Union Flag has also been embedded into the flags of various other nations and their respective armed forces too, so any changes would have an effect across the globe.

As for historical references, many people have fought under the Union Flag and represents a huge investment by them and their relatives when it comes to various memorials.

This article on the BBC site gives a few examples: BBC News - What would the union jack look like if the Scottish bit was removed?

How do you thin things should go?

Should we have a Welsh dragon on the flag?

Note: References to historical references taken from Wikipedia.

[Hedgehog1979]

I believe the question about Scotland getting independence and what would happen to the Scottish call centres was brought up at one of the internal forum meetings, although I cannot remember the response word for word it was basically that Sky had a strong workforce in Scotland and that independence would not change the relationship Sky has with the Scottish staff.

It is not just call centres that are in Scotland but there are a lot of IT and support Staff as well however things change that quickly who can tell what would finally happen.


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[dog-man]

I have never thought of Scotland being another country, nor Wales either and I originate from Wales.
I have always thought of them being just an area within the UK, but since the independence debate, I now think of Scotland as another country and it bothers me a bit.

Strangely, I have no views on Wales even though I am Welsh (living in England), perhaps because they have not gone for full independence as some Scots would want.

[Isitme]

The Union flag is already out of date as it commemorates the original Uniting of the Kingdoms of England and Ireland with the Kingdom of Scotland. As Scotland has no intenion of leaving the Kingdom, or should I say Queendom, there is no need for different flags. Personally I have no intention of voting to cut the ties with the rest of the UK. It would be a backward step in my opinion.

The only downside is that if the Vote is No, as I think it will be, it wil signal the end of the SNP as a force and a resurgence of the Labour party. Although they are not perfect, the SNP have made not a bad job of governing Scotland in the time they have been in power. I shudder to think what would happen under Labour.

[Scubbie]

I can understand the resentment that the people of Wales, Scotland and Ireland have over Parliament.

When I've been to Scotland in the past London felt like a very far away place, even though I used to work there.

What I also resent is that Wales, Ireland and Scotland all have their own bodies who can make suitable laws that affect each of those countries, but England has nothing and has to rely on MPs who come from all four countries representing them in Parliament. This makes England the worse off for being represented. So an MP from Scotland can vote in a law for England, which is then overturned for Scotland.

Whilst I have obviously no vote in this, I too believe it would be a mistake for Scotland to become independent. An old saying "Divide and concur" comes to mind.

P.S. Having seen the workings of Parliament close up, I wouldn't trust any of them anyway.

[FelixTCat]

Whilst the Union Flag may be made up from the flags of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, it is the national flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Just because Scotland leaves Great Britain would be no reason to change the flag.

If the Scots leave, I hope they'll enjoy trying to join the Euro.

[Isitme]

If the Scots leave, I hope they'll enjoy trying to join the Euro.

As it is the UK and not England who are members of the EU, shouldn't England have to re-apply too?

According to the 'manifesto' an independent Scotland will still use English money, so will still under the financial boot of the B of E. We may even loose our existing colourful Scottish banknotes.

[FelixTCat]

As it is the UK and not England who are members of the EU, shouldn't England have to re-apply too?

Huh? It wouldn't be England, it would be the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland. The EU wouldn't dare require the new UK to reapply for admission, because either it wouldn't or it would require renegotiation of the terms.

It seems somewhat pointless to claim independence if you are financially tied to another country, i.e. the remaining UK. If an independent Scotland couldn't increase its borrowing, it would have to fund its expenditure through increased taxation. In addition it would lose its central grant, which is currently larger than that to England or Wales. I reckon Carlisle, Berwick and Newcastle will burst with the industry fleeing Scotland because of the increased taxation.

[albaT4]

Huh? It wouldn't be England, it would be the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland. The EU wouldn't dare require the new UK to reapply for admission, because either it wouldn't or it would require renegotiation of the terms.

It seems somewhat pointless to claim independence if you are financially tied to another country, i.e. the remaining UK. If an independent Scotland couldn't increase its borrowing, it would have to fund its expenditure through increased taxation. In addition it would lose its central grant, which is currently larger than that to England or Wales. I reckon Carlisle, Berwick and Newcastle will burst with the industry fleeing Scotland because of the increased taxation.

Given that Scotland contributes 9.3% of UK tax but receives 9.1% of spending (and the tax excludes scotch whisky exports which are counted as English) and if you factor in savings from things like not spending £100 billion on New nukes then what makes you think tax would rise? Scottish government wants to cut not raise corporate tax

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[dms05]

One point rarely debated is membership of the EU and the Euro. The SNP seem to assume it's just a matter of applying. Several EU members would oppose a breakaway state such as Scotland as they are fighting to maintain their own territory against breakaway factions. The most obvious is Spain who face independence calls from two of their regions (Catalonia and the Basques). The Spanish national government won't even grant either a referendum so they are unlikely to encourage them further by supporting a breakaway Scotland by approving their applications for the EU and Euro membership.