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    BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users

    This is a discussion on BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users within the Entertainment forums, part of the Community channel category; BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users The BBC is to spy on internet users in their ...

    1. #1
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      BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users

      BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users
      The BBC is to spy on internet users in their homes by deploying a new generation of Wi-Fi detection vans to identify those illicitly watching its programmes online. The Telegraph can disclose that from next month, the BBC vans will fan out across the country capturing information from private Wi-Fi networks in homes to “sniff out” those who have not paid the licence fee.

      The corporation has been given legal dispensation to use the new technology, which is typically only available to crime-fighting agencies, to enforce the new requirement that people watching BBC programmes via the iPlayer must have a TV licence.

      The disclosure will lead to fears about invasion of privacy and follows years of concern over the heavy-handed approach of the BBC towards those suspected of not paying the licence fee. However, the BBC insists that its inspectors will not be able to spy on other internet browsing habits of viewers.

      The existence of the new strategy emerged in a report carried out by the National Audit Office (NAO).

      It shows that TV Licensing, the corporation’s licence-fee collection arm, has developed techniques to track those watching television on laptops, tablets, and mobile phones.

      The disclosure of the controversial new snooping technique will lay to rest the persistent claims that detector vans are no more than an urban myth designed to intimidate the public into paying the licence fee.

      Sir Amyas Morse, the comptroller and auditor general of the NAO, writes in the report: “Detection vans can identify viewing on a non-TV device in the same way that they can detect viewing on a television set.

      “BBC staff were able to demonstrate this to my staff in controlled conditions sufficient for us to be confident that they could detect viewing on a range of non-TV devices.”

      Currently, anyone who watches or records live programming – online or on television – needs to buy a £145.50 licence. But from September 1, those who use the iPlayer only for catch-up viewing will also need to pay the fee, after the BBC successfully lobbied the Government to change the law.

      Under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, the corporation is entitled to carry out surveillance of suspected licence-fee dodgers.

      The BBC confirmed that its newly developed detection techniques had been authorised under the legislation.

      In numbers | BBC TV licence

      10 shillings

      Cost of the first ever licence fee in 1922 (50p in today's money)

      £145.50

      Cost of a colour TV Licence in 2016, compared to £49.00 for a black and white licence.

      £1,000

      Maximum fine for watching without a valid licence. Plus a criminal record

      96%

      Proportion of British homes with a TV set or who watch live TV on another device

      75 years

      The age that you are eligible for a free TV licence

      £3.7 billion

      The amount collected by TV licensing in 2013/2014

      180,000

      Number of people prosecuted for not paying the licence fee in 2012/13

      £650 million

      The cost the BBC has agreed to cover to provide free TV licences for the over 75s
      While the corporation would not disclose how the new technology works, the report states that the BBC has ruled out combing its own records of computers that have logged into the iPlayer website to hunt down non-paying viewers.

      Sir Amyas writes in the document: “The BBC rightly acknowledges that this would be an inappropriate invasion of privacy.”

      Instead, electrical engineering experts said that the most likely explanation for how the BBC would carry out its surveillance was a technique known as “packet sniffing”, which involves watching traffic passing over a wireless internet network without hacking into the connection or breaking its encryption.

      Researchers at University College London disclosed that they had used a laptop running freely available software to identify Skype internet phone calls passing over encrypted Wi-Fi, without needing to crack the network password.

      Dr Miguel Rio, a computer network expert who helped to oversee the doctoral thesis, said that licence-fee inspectors could sit outside a property and view encrypted “packets” of data – such as their size and the frequency with which they are emitted over the network – travelling over a home Wi-Fi network.

      This would allow them to establish if devices at homes without television licences were indeed accessing BBC programmes online.

      Dr Rio said: “They actually don’t need to decrypt traffic, because they can already see the packets. They have control over the iPlayer, so they could ensure that it sends packets at a specific size, and match them up. They could also use directional antennae to ensure they are viewing the Wi-Fi operating within your property.”

      Privacy campaigners described the developments as “creepy and worrying”.

      A spokesman for Privacy International, the human rights watchdog, said: “While TV Licensing have long been able to examine the electromagnetic spectrum to watch for and investigate incorrect usage of their services, the revelation that they are potentially developing technology to monitor home Wi-Fi networks is startlingly invasive.”

      A spokesman for TV Licensing said: “We’ve caught people watching on a range of devices, but don’t give details of detection as we would not want to reveal information helpful to evaders.

      “Our use of detection is regularly inspected by independent regulators.”

      The broadcaster included the NAO report in a list of documents that it claimed to have published alongside its annual report last month, but never distributed the review or uploaded it to its website. It has now been placed online by the public spending watchdog

      FAQ | What is 'packet sniffing'?

      What is packet sniffing?
      Data sent over an internet network is typically split into “packets” – bundles of information that, together, make up a bigger file such as a web page or online video. By monitoring an internet network, eavesdroppers can detect these packets being sent.

      Does it put my privacy at risk?

      As well as the data itself, packets contain additional information such as the internet addresses of the sender and receiver and how it gets to its destination. However, most of this information is now sealed by encryption when sent over a home Wi-Fi network, making snooping difficult.

      So how can the BBC tell if I am using iPlayer?

      The BBC has promised not to break encryption or to exploit connections at its end of the network. However, it can monitor information including the size and frequency of packets. While this data would normally be useless to an eavesdropper, but the BBC could manipulate the packets that the iPlayer sends out to see if they match those on a network.

      Is this legal?

      Packet sniffing is generally illegal on somebody else’s network but the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act gives certain bodies permission to monitor internet communications. The BBC has been given authority under the Act to watch home Wi-Fi connections.

      Can I tell if someone is monitoring me?

      Since the BBC is not cracking a network when monitoring Wi-Fi, adding a password to a home router will do little to prevent this sort of packet sniffing. A van would also not necessarily have to be directly outside a property to pick up its network if it uses special antennas that can pick up signals from long distances.


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    3. #2
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      Re: BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users

      Can the detector van tell whether my device is plugged into the mains?

    4. #3
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      Re: BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users

      Rendered completely moot by an RJ45, yet more money wasted, retards!
      Scubbie likes this.

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      Re: BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users

      Even the old TV detector vans that supposedly located TVs based on line oscillator RF leakage were probably not very effective. While the BBC published photographs of the high tech interiors there have been reports that some of the vans were no more than empty shells. The presence of a detector van operating in a given area together with reports of their activity in the local press did increase the take up of licenses in those areas. Even if based on "bad science" the vans did (and probably still do) have a substantial propaganda value. Whether this value is greater than the cost of vehicles (both real and decoys) is debatable.

    6. #5
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      Re: BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users

      Using a VPN with encryption with stop detection, I wish they would just scrap the tax and let the BBC function in the real world.
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    7. #6
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      Re: BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users

      NO, the BBC Probably Can NOT Snoop Your WiFi via UK TV Detector Vans

      NO, the BBC Probably Can NOT Snoop Your WiFi via UK TV Detector Vans - ISPreview UK
      Over the weekend it was reported that the BBC were about to deploy new technology that could capture information from your broadband based home WiFi network and “sniff out” any TV Licence fee dodgers watching iPlayer content online. You probably shouldn’t be worried.

      Hopefully by now most people will be aware that a recent change in the law means that, as of 1st September 2016, a TV Licence will also be needed to download or watch BBC programmes on demand, including catch up TV, on BBC iPlayer.

      Naturally licence fee dodgers will have been alarmed to read the Telegraph’s piece on Saturday, which warned that the TV Licensing Authority was about to launch a fleet of WiFi sniffing vans to help track them down.

      The evidence for this was apparently a vague piece of text in a related report from the National Audit Office (NAO) and the mass media duly regurgitated it, even though the full paragraph is not quite as clear cut as originally claimed and does not mention WiFi.

      Sir Amyas Morse’s report said:

      “The BBC’s final detection and enforcement option is its fleet of detection vans. Where the BBC still suspects that an occupier is watching live television but not paying for a licence, it can send a detection van to check whether this is the case. TVL detection vans can identify viewing on a non‐TV device in the same way that they can detect viewing on a television set. BBC staff were able to demonstrate this to my staff in controlled conditions sufficient for us to be confident that they could detect viewing on a range of non‐TV devices.”
      The very same report, on point 1.31 (page 40), clarifies that the BBC’s approach also would have to be rather limited because anything that could snoop on your WiFi, such as in the way suggested by the Telegraph, might also have access to traffic going to non-TV devices. “The BBC rightly acknowledges that this would be an inappropriate invasion of privacy,” said the report.

      Now we don’t doubt that such vans do exist, but so far as we are aware nobody has ever been prospected via detection evidence in court and most such vans are merely used by enquiry officers when making house visits to those without a licence fee. Officers catch an average of almost 900 evaders every day, mostly through ordinary means (e.g. face-to-face chats).

      The next challenge is one of technology and law. Admittedly anybody running an open WiFi network might be vulnerable to such snooping, although it would depend upon the amount of access allowed by the owner’s router and even then you might need to commit an act of hacking to gather that specific data from deeper within the customer’s home LAN.

      However today most routers are secured and encrypted using WPA/WPA2 by default and, short of exploiting a vulnerability in the device to get around this (i.e. hacking, which the authority will NOT do), there’s virtually nothing that the BBC could do to sniff out your iPlayer usage.

      Heck it would be easier for the TV Licensing authority to simply abuse measures in the forthcoming Investigatory Powers Bill (IPBill) and have ISPs keep a look out for iPlayer access, although this would still be technically very difficult to achieve with any accuracy (Deep Packet Inspection of traffic perhaps?).

      The bill itself is also supposed to be aimed at serious cyber-crime (we’ll see how long that lasts), not TV Licence fee dodgers and lest we not forget the “inappropriate invasion of privacy” comment above. So far the IPBill does not appear to include a provision that precisely matches the TV Licence authority’s rather unique requirements and current laws would demand a warrant.

      Alternatively they could perhaps track IP addresses via iPlayer and link that back to an ISP, which would then allow them to request details of the related customer(s) from a broadband provider via the courts. However accessing a particular iPlayer page doesn’t mean to say the content itself was watched and this kind of evidence is notoriously flaky, as well as being easily defeated by a VPN. Once again, WiFi has nothing to do with it.

      In other words, short of looking through a window to see what’s on your screen, which is something that the enforcement officers may well attempt, there’s actually no real evidence to support the original claim of WiFi sniffing. Clearly the fear of such a van is far more effective than the van itself, which probably doesn’t even exist or at least not to any huge scale.

      However, in playing devil’s advocate, we should say that nobody except the BBC and TV Licensing authority can say 100% for sure that they aren’t rolling around in vans, breaking into your WiFi network and snooping your Internets.

      No doubt they’d end up sitting there for hours, observing your sessions of porn, cat pictures and inane Facebook postings, in the hope of catching that one time where you did something useful (to them) and viewed an old episode of Dr Who via iPlayer. So we can’t say for sure and there are ways to theoretically do it, but they’re probably using a much simpler approach that has zero to do with hacking into your WiFi network. Also..


      https://twitter.com/bbcpress/status/...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

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      Re: BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users

      Its all FUD to scare the populus into buying a license
      I actually dont watch any live tv or bbc ondemand
      but still pay not because of FUD but the way tvl harass you if you dont
      speedyrite likes this.

    9. #8
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      Re: BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users

      Whilst I understand why you are paying for a TV License when you are not benefiting from it's purpose, this highlights what is wrong with our current system.

      There are many others who do not watch live TV for many reasons. Many of those do not watch iPlayer either, yet they must fight each time that they get a knock on the door from the TV Licensing people.
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    10. #9
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      Re: BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users

      When i moved in into this house in 2000

      I had clearly just moved in no curtains up living room empty and being decorated etc.
      I had a knock at the door from tvl enforcers (clearly the previous people hadnt been paying before i moved in)
      I had finished decorating my bedroom and my son who was 3 at the time was was upstairs on it playing a game on my pc that i had setup upstairs until the living room was done

      Anyway i explained to him that i had just moved in and that i was decorating and would get a license in a month or so when i had setup the house and the tv was setup etc..

      He went on to caution me (like a police officer would when being arrested)
      as he suspected i was watching tv without a license as he could hear my son playing on the pc
      I told him what the noise was he wasnt interested an even offered to show him

      I phoned tv licensing and explained what had just happened
      and they basicly just said just pay over the phone now and all will be fine

      Thinking back now i still had a valid license from my old house
      even after all these years the way the idiot was at the door
      gets me quite mad

      I havnt really watched tv since 2010 maybe have it on in the background
      in 2012 i got rid of sky tv because of this and havnt watched live tv since

      I have considered telling tvl a few times and stopping paying
      as i am one of the few who arnt trying to scam anything and doesnt actually watch any live tv or bbc ondemand
      all my content is located on a 70TB Home server

      Then see stuff like this
      listen to the whole recording

      Last edited by Shonk; 10-08-16 at 02:37 AM.

    11. #10
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      Re: BBC to deploy detection vans to snoop on internet users

      Annoyingly it is not Civil Law. Failure to pay for a TV License when it should be paid comes under Criminal Law. You can go to prison for failure to pay for a TV License. A lot of this guy's comments would sadly fall flat if he went to court over this.

      However...

      3.12: Policeman "The only reason I can think that you're reluctant to let people in is because you're guilty of sin mate"

      Wow! What a biased statement! I personally can think of many reasons why I would not wish to allow people into my home, all of them perfectly legal and none of them to do with me committing a criminal act.

      In response to the question asking what evidence was used to obtain the warrant:

      4.18: From Court Officer (or TV Licensing man) : "Yes, an officer saw a TV in your window"

      Point of law: The TV has to be connected to an Aerial or some other device (i.e. a Satellite receiver, DVD Recorder or VCR Recorder) in order to receive live TV transmissions. One particular friend I have does have a 40" Plasma TV. She plays her game console on it, watches Blu-rys & DVDs, streams content via the Internet, but doesn't have a satellite dish or TV aerial. She does not need or have a TV License.

      Actually there is something he could have asked, that is for people to leave as they were trespassing. Providing that he is correct about requiring evidence, beyond seeing the TV from the window. This is something to consider if you wish to forcefully close your door on someone. If they later complain that you hurt them, but are unable to provide evidence that they had a right (including an invitation) to enter your property, then they would be in trouble. Examples include leaflet delivery people & Postmen & women. If their fingers go inside the letterbox and a dog bites them, tough. They were trespassing.

      7.58: Court officer or TV License officer: "Under the TV License Act 2003, if you have receiving equipment, you must have a license"

      Wrong!

      Official TV Licensing website - Legal framework
      The requirement to hold a TV Licence and to pay a fee for it is mandated by law under the Communications Act 2003 and Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 (as amended). It is an offence to watch or record television programmes as they are being shown on any channel and on any broadcast platform (terrestrial, satellite, cable and the internet) without a valid TV Licence.


      Section 363 of the Communications Act 2003 makes it an offence to install or use a television receiver to watch or record any television programmes as they’re being shown on television without a TV Licence.
      Taking from this if the PC has a TV Tuner card connected to an aerial, then a TV License would be required. However if he was streaming content from his hard drive or over the Internet, then no license is required.

      When the change in law comes into effect that includes anyone streaming BBC iPlayer content, this kind of nasty bullying technique is going to get worse. I can see then impounding someone's computer, laptop, tablet and even mobile phone, in order to be able to check to see if they;ve been using it to watch BBC Content.

      *** Remember folks - after watching the Olympics on your phone or tablets, make sure that you wide all traces off before September ***

      12.43: 'Victim' : Sorry no you don't have the right to read their form at this stage. The best thing to do is to continue videoing your evidence as they muscle in on your property. If this goes to court you can show your side very clearly. Of course there will be extra evidence you'll need, such as images showing that there is no aerial connected to the TV or computer.

      13.30: 'Victim' : "What channels have you tested?"
      Court official / TV License man "I haven't. Have I written anything there? I started then I waited for you"
      'Victim' "Right, I'll show you TV 1. But not through the computer because obviously anyone can receive it through a computer"

      Ok, actually this could be true. Just google 'live tv' and you'll see a lot of sites offering this, provided that you're connected to the Internet. This is potentially entrapment. For several years you've needed to click a button to confirm that you have a TV License when you reach this point on the websites. Obviously going beyond this stage would now technically be breaking the law as it stands. Whilst technically Sky Go is delayed for around 45 seconds, it is deemed to be 'live'. With that in mind, NowTV would also qualify.

      However if you were to access the ITV or Channel 4 site and download or stream content on-line, but not a live broadcast, then you don't need a TV license.

      What the 'Victim' said was technically correct, however it is not proof that he was watching live TV. A good lawyer would argue that one in court. What should have been asked would be along the lines of:


      • has the PC got a Tuner Card (i.e. Freeview or Freesat)?
      • does the 'Victim' browse any sites which stream live content?
      • are there any apps (i.e. Windows TV Catchup app) installed on the computer?


      15.05: 'Victim' : "You are enforcing a corporation that I have no contract with"

      Ok, technically he doesn't have a contract with the BBC, but it doesn't matter. If you have equipment capable of receiving a live transmission, then you need a TV License. That is the law as it stands at this time. Again, this is a criminal act.

      If you refused to pay your Sky subscription fee, then things are different. Until last year they'd probably chase you for the outstanding balance and that was it. Of course if you're very late of payment then they'd cancel your viewing card's entitlements and you can no longer watch either live or recorded content. Things changed last year and now they can add additional costs if you bounce anything, let alone become very late with your payments.

      http://www.sky.com/shop/__PDF/Sky_TV_Contract.pdf
      Page 8:
      (g)
      If you have missed any payments you owe to us or provided unauthorised payment or other details we can
      suspend provision of the Service and/or provision of the satellite television magazine (if applicable) to you,
      without giving you notice. This does not affect our right to end this Contract under Condition 11 below.
      Page 8:
      (i)
      If you miss any payments you owe to us including for any Sky service we may charge you a reasonable fee to help
      pay for the extra costs we incur processing late payments, or interest at the yearly equivalent of 4% over Barclays
      Bank plc’s base rate for the whole period of any late payment, to compensate us for you breaking these Conditions.
      Any interest is worked out daily. Details of these fees can be found on
      sky.com/latepaymentfee
      . These fees will not
      be applied to any amount you have not paid because it is the subject of an ongoing dispute between us.
      You will be responsible for paying all reasonable debt recovery fees/charges incurred in recovering your debt,
      including fees charged by any debt collection company we use.

      We will send you a reminder or call you before applying any late payment fees or instructing a debt collection company.
      We may also charge you a reasonable fee that reflects the costs we incur if any payment instruction from you is
      returned to us because you do not have enough funds in your account, is cancelled or is not cleared by your bank.
      This means that Sky now has a clear right to use a debt collection agency if they wish.

      The 'Victim's' paranoia is getting to him. Stating that the court always favours the corporations would not help his state of mind nor would the police be interested. They are supposed to remain neutral. Of course the corporations have more experience in taking people to court than this guy does.


      Looking at the original post of the video ( ) there are quite a few comments. He's posted the following in the description of the video:
      Published on 19 Dec 2013

      *********************** UPDATE 12/11/14 *******************************
      Just a quick update no charges of License evasion have been brought against us because Capitas Enforcement Officers could not get a live TV Signal, which shows that we are Legally License Free and will never purchase a license again.

      As for the charge of obstruction i was found guilty and ordered to pay £200 Fine, £375 Court Costs and £20 Victim Surcharge a Total of £595 but the prosecution was asking for and made it known to the magistrate that it was a category 5 crime which is a maximum fine of £5000 and they wanted £750 Court Costs on top of that.

      I will be writing a full report with the help of a friend over the coming weeks to explain everything that happened, what i would do different in hindsight and It will all be published here Http://www.BinaryG.co.uk

      Thanks to everyone for their kind words and support.
      Mick
      ************************************************** ******************************************

      This insanity all happened to me on the 19-12-2013 so please share if you want to be kept up to date or just read more please visit the forum topic http://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/f...

      IF YOU WANT TO SHARE OR COPY THIS VIDEO PLEASE FEEL FREE SPREAD IT FAR AND WIDE.
      My Discussion on the TV Resistance forum is here http://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/f...

      I was not going to post his video because i did not want to draw attention to myself all i want was to be left alone. But these goons have come to my house and called me a lier when infact it is them who tell a pack of lies to try and intimidate people into buying into one of the biggest UK Scams the BBC TV Licence.

      For the record i never watch any live broadcasts and only use a mix of PC`s and Raspberry Pi`s with XBMC installed to watch dvd`s and other content so i do not need a tv licence.

      If you would like more info on how to rid your self of this insane scam please visit
      TV Licence Resistance – Fighting To Abolish The TV Licence
      if you would like to talk to some people about your situation you can also visit thier forum
      http://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/f...

      i do not condone criminal activitys of any kind including corporate scams and bullying.

      People wonder why I am not in favour of the BBC continuing to have a TV License system.
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