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    Possible Extension Cable Issues

    This is a discussion on Possible Extension Cable Issues within the Cabling and faceplate help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; I'm a tenant in a 3-storey house that has some things done spectacularly wrong with it when it was built. ...

    1. #1
      IAmNotAUser's Avatar
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      Possible Extension Cable Issues

      I'm a tenant in a 3-storey house that has some things done spectacularly wrong with it when it was built. I've been here 2 years and we've been with Sky since before I moved in. There's been a few issues here and there over that time, but nothing major; the worst was a couple of months back we lost WAN connectivity entirely - Sky issued us a Sagemcom F@stf2304 to replace our aging Netgear and all was good with the world again.

      I'm soon to graduate with a BSc in Computer Science, with quite a few network modules, so I'm understand what's going on in the background - and at least know what to look for when things start going wrong. More than Sky CS seem to know after today anyways.

      This afternoon sites began taking an incredibly long time to load, much longer than usual. I ran a couple of quick SpeedTests out of curiousity and noticed average results of over 3000ms ping, DL of about 0.2Mbps and UL of about 0.1Mbps. I started pinging Google and was receiving 1500ms times minimum, including the DNS lookup. There's the load time issue cause I figured.

      So I called up Sky to check if there was any known issues on my line. I got put through to an Indian callcentre and the guy recommended give the router a hard reset, so I did. After it came back up, my pings were back in the 70-80ms maximum range. After about 90 minutes, they rocketed back up again - so I called again.
      This time I got through to a Scottish (I think?) woman who firstly refused to listen to the fact that I was getting slow browsing and I knew the reason why, but not the cause. She had me check the router page and establish that my downspeed was 8000+kbps and started repeating that I "should have no issues downloading as 8Mb [...the usual speed I've been getting for over 2 years)]was lighting fast and was I having any problems streaming?" So I went to the BBC homepage to check, and was greeted with a 36 second load time (as Chrome had to resolve every sub-domain it was collecting resources from at 3secs a pop), which I counted out to her and she finally realised there was something wrong.

      Slightly more helpfully, she started looking at my cabling layout. For reference here it is below:



      The light green box is the BT master socket, in a downstairs bedroom.
      The orange box is the microfilter, in the living room.
      The light blue box is the SkyTV box.
      The dark blue box is a phone.
      The dark green box is the Sagemcom F@st2304.
      The red box is a unmanaged gigabit switch in an upstairs bedroom, with a few wired devices plugged into it.

      The dark blue cable is Cat5 running up the side of the 2nd staircase.
      The light blue cable goes between the microfilter and router (unsure of the cable type, but it has a small square jack)
      The purple cables end with the rectangle phone jacks (again unsure of the exact standard name)
      The pink cable is a plain cable that runs up the side of the 1st staircase, and looks like a phone line cable? It has the rectangular phone jack on either end.

      She suggested my high latency could be coming from the use of the extension cable before the filter and that I should move the microfilter downstairs. This is because apparently "the extension cannot carry the frequencies required for broadband".
      O....K.... Ignoring the fact this setup has been working perfectly adequately for the last 28 months or so and hasn't been touched today or recently, it's copper cable - surely it just blindly carries any frequency that is pushed along it? It's the microfilters job to block out the ADSL frequencies, and that comes after the extension. No longer ignoring the other fact, why would it suddenly become faulty today? And not cutting out, I'm getting 0% packet loss on my pings, they just take multiple seconds each.

      Firstly I swapped my microfilter out with a spare. Upon reconnection, I had a low latency for a couple of minutes and before long it was back up again. So I had a quick test and moved my filter and router downstairs, unplugging all my wired connections, and tested using my phone when WiFi came back up. Quick pings again. And they stayed this way for over an hour.

      So firstly, this post is a CompSci student wanting to understand more. I can find multiple sites stating the filter should be the first thing, but I'm curious to know the physics why when it's just a length of copper cable coming out the socket. I don't believe her answer, I can't understand the logic behind in. Also, why would it suddenly change so drastically today when it's been fine for so long?
      Secondly, I'd rather not have to move the router downstairs. WiFi signal on the top floor would be reduced, plus I don't fancy buying 25-30m of Cat5 to run around 2 edges of the bedroom, up the staircase and buying another switch to place in the living room (there's a wired computer in there I skipped for simplicity). Could I get a length of whatever cable that comes out the ADSL port of a microfilter and run that instead to keep the router in the same place? Do I have any other options that I've not thought of?

      This feels like browsing back on dial-up so I'd be really grateful for any help you can provide, and I apologise for the long post - I figured posting more in-depth information would help me get the explained answer I'm looking for. And allowed me to explain some of the reasoning behind not wanting to move the router



      Here's some of the pings I've been sending over the course of writing this post:
      C:\Program Files (x86)\Console2>ping google.com

      Pinging google.com [173.194.67.104] with 32 bytes of data:
      Reply from 173.194.67.104: bytes=32 time=2339ms TTL=49
      Reply from 173.194.67.104: bytes=32 time=2275ms TTL=49
      Reply from 173.194.67.104: bytes=32 time=2284ms TTL=49
      Reply from 173.194.67.104: bytes=32 time=2170ms TTL=49

      Ping statistics for 173.194.67.104:
      Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
      Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
      Minimum = 2170ms, Maximum = 2339ms, Average = 2267ms

      C:\Program Files (x86)\Console2>ping google.com

      Pinging google.com [173.194.67.104] with 32 bytes of data:
      Reply from 173.194.67.104: bytes=32 time=2244ms TTL=49
      Reply from 173.194.67.104: bytes=32 time=2399ms TTL=49
      Reply from 173.194.67.104: bytes=32 time=2564ms TTL=49
      Reply from 173.194.67.104: bytes=32 time=2656ms TTL=49

      Ping statistics for 173.194.67.104:
      Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
      Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
      Minimum = 2244ms, Maximum = 2656ms, Average = 2465ms

      C:\Program Files (x86)\Console2>ping google.com

      Pinging google.com [209.85.147.106] with 32 bytes of data:
      Reply from 209.85.147.106: bytes=32 time=3211ms TTL=54
      Reply from 209.85.147.106: bytes=32 time=3273ms TTL=54
      Reply from 209.85.147.106: bytes=32 time=3274ms TTL=54
      Reply from 209.85.147.106: bytes=32 time=3394ms TTL=54

      Ping statistics for 209.85.147.106:
      Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
      Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
      Minimum = 3211ms, Maximum = 3394ms, Average = 3288ms

      C:\Program Files (x86)\Console2>ping google.com

      Pinging google.com [209.85.147.106] with 32 bytes of data:
      Reply from 209.85.147.106: bytes=32 time=1456ms TTL=54
      Reply from 209.85.147.106: bytes=32 time=1626ms TTL=54
      Reply from 209.85.147.106: bytes=32 time=2158ms TTL=54
      Reply from 209.85.147.106: bytes=32 time=2628ms TTL=54

      Ping statistics for 209.85.147.106:
      Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
      Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
      Minimum = 1456ms, Maximum = 2628ms, Average = 1967ms


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    3. #2
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      Re: Possible Extension Cable Issues

      I've dealt with a few customers recently who have perfectly stable lines, but have been experiencing slow throughput coupled with very high ping times. Routers have been replaced, tie pair shifts have been done and so on.

      Sadly nobody seems to know why it is, and any attempts to push for further investigation have been met with "this isn't the correct process for a slow connection". Bah. Personally I think there's something happening in Sky's network.

      Getting a bit ahead of myself with your particular issue though - before we start blaming strange unseen forces, I would post up your router stats.

      And also try and get your line checked by CST as they can look to see if your connection is erroring/unstable.

    4. #3
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      Re: Possible Extension Cable Issues

      I've only skeeted throgh your post but I'm afraid there is a bit more to it than "it's copper cable - surely it just blindly carries any frequency that is pushed along it".

      Simple question, with the front plate off your master socket (NTE5?) so all extensions are dead is the issue gone or still there?
      run-IT-direct, For all your networking, ADSL & telecom requirements.

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      Re: Possible Extension Cable Issues

      it's copper cable - surely it just blindly carries any frequency that is pushed along it
      Unfortunately telephone cables within a house, even those which are proper twisted pair copper, are liable to act as aerials and pick up interference. In addition if the 'ring' wire is connected it can cause an imbalance in the working pair which will induce more interference. For this reason we always recommend fitting a filtered faceplate to the Master socket and connecting the router directly to it, or using a faceplate with a proper ring filter. The alternate is to remove the ring wire from the Master socket so that its circuit is broken.

      If you have an NTE5 master socket remove the face plate as previously suggested and take your stats from there. Take them first from your normal position for a comparison.

      There are alternate ways to set up your network, which we can go into when we establish your optimum speed.

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.





    6. #5
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      Re: Possible Extension Cable Issues

      Just to add that I had a high quality modem cable (rj45 on cat 5) that ran for 8m along a wall. I was still getting fast ping speeds and 14Mb/s speeds on my broadband. Now i do the opposite, short modem cable and long network cable instead.

      I did a Comp Sci degree at Brunel 10 years ago... Wonder how much has changed?

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      Re: Possible Extension Cable Issues

      Quote Originally Posted by EDDIE864 View Post
      Just to add that I had a high quality modem cable (rj45 on cat 5) that ran for 8m along a wall. I was still getting fast ping speeds and 14Mb/s speeds on my broadband. Now i do the opposite, short modem cable and long network cable instead.

      I did a Comp Sci degree at Brunel 10 years ago... Wonder how much has changed?
      An 8m extension cable for the ADSl should make zero difference IF it is twisted pair (CAT5e/CW1308). A 90M ETHERNET cable will make zero difference to speeds. CAT5e does not drop off over the length of cable hence the reason the horizontal run is limited to 90M.
      run-IT-direct, For all your networking, ADSL & telecom requirements.

     

     

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