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    Old BT Master Socket & De-embarkation

    This is a discussion on Old BT Master Socket & De-embarkation within the Cabling and faceplate help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Hi there, I've just moved into a new flat. I had BT out to activate/install the line just over a ...

    1. #1
      gremboid's Avatar
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      Old BT Master Socket & De-embarkation

      Hi there,

      I've just moved into a new flat. I had BT out to activate/install the line just over a month ago and now I'm running into problems. The router was plugged into an extension, and my sync speed was a bit low, so i thought I'd try the test socket.

      Turns out that the socket where the BT line comes in is just an old style one with the extension hard wired in. Now from simply removing faceplates to check for a test socket the extension is now dead. I've checked the connections but no joy.

      The drop wire (black cable) comes in from the outside by the front door into a junction box (see picture). Cable then snakes over and around doorways into the first bedroom where it ends in one of the old style sockets that has the big capacitor e.t.c.

      I've told BT and they said I should really have got an NTE5 master, but its up to the engineer when he comes out. The supervisor I spoke to said he could not gurantee 100% I wouldnt be charged. Now I'm a bit nervous!

      Where does BT's responsibility end? I've read somewhere that its the junction box by the door, and I've read elsewhere its the first socket in the property.

      Either way legally, I can't add or modify any extensions can I? Otherwise I would have to fiddle with the wiring inside the master socket?

      if I just say to the engineer I want to add in other extensions they have to give me an NTE5 right? The main thing is I'm worried about the huge charges!

      Thanks
      Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Old BT Master Socket & De-embarkation-image228.jpg  


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    3. #2
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      Re: Old BT Master Socket & De-embarkation

      When I was with BT it was the first socket on the line. If a test socket was present that was the natural marker for the termination of BT property to CPE.

    4. #3
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      Re: Old BT Master Socket & De-embarkation

      Bit of a grey area i'd say, technically you can't do anything yourself as the first socket on the line is hard wired with no disconnect feature from BT's network. What you really want is an NTE5 wired off that junction box with any subsequent extensions wired from the NTE5. Whether a BT engineer would know or care that you have changed the first socket on the line to an NTE5 is your call!
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    5. #4
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      Re: Old BT Master Socket & De-embarkation

      Demarcation for domestic lines is as follows.

      (1) If you have a NTE-5 master socket, Then BT/Openreach are responsible for all the wiring from the outside, including any joint boxes, up to and including the master itself.
      The customer is responsible for all wiring connected to the faceplate of the NTE-5 master.

      (2) If you do not have a NTE-5 master, then there is no demarcation point, you may not connect any extensions other than by a plug-in device. Any hard wired extensions remain the responsibilty of BT/Openreach.

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      Re: Old BT Master Socket & De-embarkation

      Question is how will BT know if all internal wiring is in fact theirs? Going by that i'd say they can't possibly charge the customer for any faults and it would be in BT's interest to install an NTE5 FOC to clairify what they deem as theirs from that day on?
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    7. #6
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      Re: Old BT Master Socket & De-embarkation

      Just so, in fact when a NTE-5 master is installed to replace an old one, where hard wired extensions have been fitted, it should be brought to the customers attention that they will now be responsible for their own wiring.
      The key point is that customer wiring may only be connected by means of a plug in device (including the faceplate of a NTE-5 master)

      This problem has been addressed by the new XNTE demarcation unit. This fits external, and is in effect a beefed up NTE master. The network ends at it, and all internal wiring is the customers resposibility. All network testing can be done from it, so as long as it works, any internal problems are the customers.
      Last edited by Brian69; 25-07-08 at 05:27 PM.

    8. #7
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      Re: Old BT Master Socket & De-embarkation

      Thanks for all your help guys. I feel much more at ease about having the engineer out now. Maybe he/she can help me figure out whats wrong with the extension if I'm really nice to them? My flat mate just baked a really nice cake as well....

      I'll let you know how I get on!

    9. #8
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      Re: Old BT Master Socket & De-embarkation

      Quote Originally Posted by gremboid View Post
      Thanks for all your help guys. I feel much more at ease about having the engineer out now. Maybe he/she can help me figure out whats wrong with the extension if I'm really nice to them? My flat mate just baked a really nice cake as well....

      I'll let you know how I get on!
      mmm, it must be tea time!!
      Last edited by RUNITDIRECT; 25-07-08 at 05:44 PM. Reason: i can't spell!
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    10. #9
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      Re: Old BT Master Socket & De-embarkation

      Quote Originally Posted by Brian69 View Post
      Just so, in fact when a NTE-5 master is installed to replace an old one, where hard wired extensions have been fitted, it should be brought to the customers attention that they will now be responsible for their own wiring.
      The key point is that customer wiring may only be connected by means of a plug in device (including the faceplate of a NTE-5 master)

      This problem has been addressed by the new XNTE demarcation unit. This fits external, and is in effect a beefed up NTE master. The network ends at it, and all internal wiring is the customers resposibility. All network testing can be done from it, so as long as it works, any internal problems are the customers.
      I know BT were trailing this has it now been rolled out? I wonder how this will work with new builds, i can see BT installing the external box and the internal stuff being left to the builders
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    11. #10
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      Re: Old BT Master Socket & De-embarkation

      Found the STIN on it in my inbox!! Guess what i have to read tonight
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