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    Skyuser.co.uk - Unofficial or official?

    This is a discussion on Skyuser.co.uk - Unofficial or official? within the Speak to the staff forums, part of the Website news category; Why do the moderators insist on trying to censor this forum to comply with (their perception?) of Sky's wishes? It's ...

    1. #1
      richard_jerome's Avatar
      richard_jerome is offline Sky User Member
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      Skyuser.co.uk - Unofficial or official?

      Why do the moderators insist on trying to censor this forum to comply with (their perception?) of Sky's wishes? It's an UNOFFICIAL forum, to help users who can't get any proper support though Sky.

      If you delete everything which you're scared might upset Sky, then this forum will add nothing to the SkyBB community. Users might just as well ring Sky tech support, and if that was helping anyone, they wouldn't be here would they?

      I identified the uPNP issue and I know whether it's a fault with Sky or Netgear's firmware. I know that the Sky supplied DG834GT router does actually perfom better than my DG834G. I know that the password is auto-generated from the MAC within the generic Sky firmware.

      AND now I have a solution which fixes my instability mid-evening. All whilst complying with Sky's wishes that I use their modem, and the latest version of their firmware. Do you want users to stew in their problems whilst they wait to see if Sky ever pull their finger out to fix the problems?out?

      The moderators strike me as a) siding with Sky b) lacking the relevant technical competence and c) failing to build a relationship with Sky technical support.

      I ask you again, what is the point of a unofficial Sky forum which peddles the official Sky support line of 'there is no problem, we don't need to provide a solution'? You need people outside of Sky to contribute information as well. That's the point.

      I'm just waiting to prompted to install an updated version of their firmware, as described in the T&Cs.

      /Rich

      P.S Cross posted to other relevant sites/forum, so don't bother deleting this one.
      Last edited by richard_jerome; 27-09-06 at 11:46 PM.


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    3. #2
      LNB's Avatar
      LNB
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      "Why do the moderators insist on trying to censor this forum to comply with (their perception?) of Sky's wishes?"

      It is not to comply with SKY's wishes, but this sites
      owners wishes.

      "If you delete everything which you're scared might upset Sky"

      I am not scared of upsetting SKY.

      "I identified the uPNP issue"

      Debatable.

      "I know that the password is auto-generated from the MAC within the generic Sky firmware."

      You know this or suspect it?

      "Do you want users to stew in their problems whilst they wait to see if Sky ever pull their finger out to fix the problems?out?"

      No.

      "The moderators strike me as a) siding with Sky b) lacking the relevant technical competence and c) failing to build a relationship with Sky technical support."

      a) Please elaborate.

      b) You think following somebody elses instructions to change a router setting is clever?

      c) I don't want a relationship, my wife would kill me.

      "the official Sky support line of 'there is no problem, we don't need to provide a solution'?"

      So who said this then, Mr Murdoch?

      "You need people outside of Sky to contribute information as well. That's the point."

      I'm with Freedom2Surf, is that far enough removed for you?

      "uPNP is broken in 1.02.28 & 1.02.04
      uPNP works in 1.01.28"

      Nice sig - so is it broken or not?
      Service recovery 02392 899292

      You got 3 right!
      D'oh! Not good, dude.

    4. #3
      NewsreadeR's Avatar
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      Hi Richard, here goes:

      Why do the moderators insist on trying to censor this forum to comply with (their perception?) of Sky's wishes? It's an UNOFFOCIAL forum, to help users who can't get any proper support though Sky.
      The only thing we have censored is the discussion on hacking the router. All the posts are still there, apart from the ones which have been posted after our express request not to continue. Yes we are unofficial, yes we do help users. However a user does not need to know how to flash firmware or to Telnet into their router.

      When a User signs up for Sky Broadband, that user agrees to the terms and conditions, which clearly state that that user must use the supplied router. So what you are saying to us, is to push the user to break the T and C's, which is a breech of contract. Now to me that does not seem a very bright thing for us to do.

      If you delete everything which you're scared might upset Sky, then this forum will add nothing to the SkyBB community. Users might just as well ring Sky tech support, and if that was helping anyone, they wouldn't be here would they?
      Having just looked through the deleted posts forums, i can see nothing where we have shown we are scared of Sky. What is there is the rude, swearing and "throw your dummy out of the pram" type posts. If you check my edits that I have done to any post, I think you will find that i have been quite fair, considering that most of them were for breaking rules.

      We are primarily here to help Sky bb users, as like you say Sky's support is still going through a learning curve.

      I identified the uPNP issue and I know whether it's a fault Sky or Netgear's firmware. I know that the Sky supplied DG834GT router does actually perfom better than my DG834G. I know that the password is auto-generated from the MAC within the generic Sky firmware.
      We have never censored anything of that nature, so I really don't see why that was mentioned. If Sky wanted you to have the username and password, they would have given you that in the router box I believe.

      AND now have a solution which fixes my instability mid-evening. All whilst complying with Sky's wishes that I use their modem, and the latest version of their firmware. Do you want users to stew in their problems whilst they wait to see if Sky ever pull their finger out to fix the problems?out?
      I am glad that the method that was suggested helped you out, you strike me as someone who knows what they are doing, ie competent. How would we as a site feel, if newuser a followed the methods discussed and totally cocked up the router etc? Technically it would be our fault as we were seen to promote the hacking / Telnetting into it. Quite simply, Sky do not want people messing with the hardware.

      As for users stewing, nope, we don't want to see that, hence why we are trying and asking things for people to report back on. This information is been acted on, whether you believe me or not is your perrogative.

      The moderators strike me as a) siding with Sky b) lacking the relevant technical competence and c) failing to build a relationship with Sky technical support.
      The moderators are acting on our instructions, so in effect you are saying that myself and Satdish are siding with Sky. Fair enough, if we sided with Sky you would see no complaints, no posts and probably no members. You are entitled to your opinion, I am to mine, and on that matter we will have to agree to disagree.

      Lacking the technical competence, well all I can say is that it is not a requirement to be technically competent to be a moderator, so if it means because I have not got a clue about telnet etc, then I must be thick. In fact in our Admin section a moderator is selected on helpfulness and nothing at all to do with been technical.

      The failing to build a relationship with Sky technical support, I really do not understand that statement - perhaps you would like to clarify, as in my eyes, we have done everything possible to work with Easynet and Sky, albeit in an unofficial capacity.

      I ask you again, what is the point of a unofficial Sky forum which peddles the official Sky support line of 'there is no problem, we don't need to provide a solution'? You need people outside of Sky to contribute information as well. That's the point.
      The point of an unofficial forum is for the users to help each other, with or without Skys help. The fact that we are unofficial is blatantly obvious I would have thought. We do not have Sky's blessing, they have never asked us to remove anything, and they are one of the top visitors to this site.

      If you have understood this forum as in your description "forum which peddles the official Sky support line of 'there is no problem, we don't need to provide a solution'?" then again I must be blind, we have asked for you not to discuss Router Hacking and most members have accepted that. To the best of my knowledge, I cannot see a post in which you could justify that statement. Perhaps you could send me a link?

      Yes we do need people outside of Sky to help, that is what we are about. Most people who come to this site ask questions, whilst at the same time, a lot of members are very knowledgeable and so give helpful answers.

      So in your eyes, as we all know it is an civil offence to steal someone intellectual copyright, ie copying discs, we should not stop any discussion on that?

      Sky have T and C's in place, we respect them and will not condone anything that will put this site at risk.

      I'm just waiting to prompted to install an updated version of their firmware, as described in the T&Cs.
      The firmware is needed, I feel, and with the feedback on here from people with different problems, I am sure will go towards that fix.

      Let me put it another way, if 300 people with different routers etc all have similar problems, then without one thing in common then how on earth can it be fixed?

      The idea of our threads asking people to try things was suggested to us by Support to try and find the common issue, so it could be acted on. This information has all been fed back to Support.

      P.S Cross posted to other relevant sites/forum, so don't bother deleting this one.
      Thanks for the links, I would not delete this post as you have been very constructive and hopefully I have answered your queries.
      Last edited by NewsreadeR; 28-09-06 at 12:11 AM. Reason: typos




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    5. #4
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      I would just like to add to this forum the oppooite argument for fairness.

      This site has been more than helpful to both myself and all the othe rmembers on here in getting to the bottom of issues and assisting where possible to resolve the problems encountered with the process of getting and setting up skyBB so that it is stable working and fast.

      At no point have I felt censored or told not to post anything and at no point have I felt anything but happyness that this site exists in its current format.

      I personally think and I am sure the majority will agree the mods are doing a great job on this site.

      There is a simple solution for people who don't like the forum as it is.

      Don't use it.

    6. #5
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      @Rich

      Sorry but what you posted is not only unnecessary its uncalled for, there are rules that govern how this forum is run, from Admins to Mods these rules are enforced and the rules are there for some very good reasons and the main 2 mains rules that are and will be adhered to are.

      1. To protect all users from bad language as this is a family orientated forum and regardless of how any member feels there is not need to use bad language.
      2. To insure that our members adhere to the T&C of the SkyBB they have signed up to by ensuring that nothing is posted could cause damage to the equipment supplied by SkyBB. (and since hacking of the router by anyone who doesn't understand what they are doing could not only cause them serious problems that in the end could come back to haunt the site owners)

      If you feel you have or any other member feels they have been hard done by in anyway all any member needs to do is send an email or PM to one of the Admins or Super Mods and it will be looked into.
      Ray

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    7. #6
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      Just to add my bit.
      ==================================
      I fully agree with : (1) below. To protect all users from bad language as this is a family orientated forum and regardless of how any member feels there is no need to use bad language.

      and just to add, or, for any kind of abuse directed at any organisation or individual
      ==================================

      As far as the comment goes about seeming to side with sky on most or all issues. I must agree that this forum can be percieved as doing that. After all there is NO OFFICIAL representation from sky on this forum that ordinary users have access to. If sky really want to address peoples concerns they should either address them on their website or ideally come here to do it. Unofficial representation or locked away areas does not suffice.

      Meanwhile all users problems whatever they are seem to be ignored and how ever helpful anyone is on this forum it just isn't good enough until sky themselves come out with either some statement about fixes to the router, the service or whatever. Until they do this, yes there will be speculation frustration and hacking just to get some sort of service. I'm not so sure personally that a public forum should be endorsing any kind of restrictions like this adslguide.org do not do it.

      Public discussion groups are exactly that - discussions - any statement made by any individual does not make the site owener responsible for it.

      I wonder if my moderator tag will remain?

    8. #7
      NewsreadeR's Avatar
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      I wonder if my moderator tag will remain?
      Yes it will, only if you decide to hand it in, would it be removed. Why would we remove you tag because you have a point of view?
      Last edited by NewsreadeR; 28-09-06 at 02:26 PM.




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    9. #8
      NewsreadeR's Avatar
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      As far as the comment goes about seeming to side with sky on most or all issues. I must agree that this forum can be percieved as doing that. After all there is NO OFFICIAL representation from sky on this forum that ordinary users have access to. If sky really want to address peoples concerns they should either address them on their website or ideally come here to do it. Unofficial representation or locked away areas does not suffice.
      so by your own analogy, Digital Spy and ADSLG must side with Sky then as well, as they also have no official staff representation.
      Last edited by NewsreadeR; 28-09-06 at 02:23 PM. Reason: typo




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    10. #9
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      Also, I forgot to mention, we received an application from a Sky staff member on here to become a moderator.

      As we are an UNOFFICIAL site, we felt it was in the best interest of this site, that this person did not become a moderator, this was clearly explained via PM to that person.

      This way Sky would have no influence on what was posted etc.




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    11. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by NewsreadeR View Post
      so by your own analogy, Digital Spy and ADSLG must side with Sky then as well, as they also have no official staff representation.
      You have misunderstood - my comment about no official sky representation was just to add weight to the argument that there is even less reason to be censoring on sky's behalf. If sky want to make comments about what is acceptable and what is not it should be for them to do - not you me or anyone else

     

     
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