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    Skyuser.co.uk - Unofficial or official?

    This is a discussion on Skyuser.co.uk - Unofficial or official? within the Speak to the staff forums, part of the Website news category; aaahh We aint censoring discussion on Sky's behalf, as previously we have clearly stated, that our AIM for this site ...

    1. #11
      NewsreadeR's Avatar
      NewsreadeR is offline Site Founder
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      aaahh

      We aint censoring discussion on Sky's behalf, as previously we have clearly stated, that our AIM for this site is to achieve Sky Staff on here.

      We would like the staff on here because:

      1) They can communicate to a large userbase

      2) They can communicate important news that effects that userbase

      3) They can answer awkward and positive questions

      4) They can get involved with the evolution of their ISP status and keep everyone in the loop

      5) Because they are nice people

      Now if we allow discussion on breaking their terms and conditions, do you really think that they are likely to want to get involved?

      That is like having a CD image for download on here of Windows XP and asking Microsoft Staff to come on here and dish out serial numbers.

      We will not (for the forseeable future) allow any discussion on the hacking of the router on here.

      We will allow debate on any subject, as long as the subject or contents do not break rules, or does not jeopordise the development of this site.

      When we launched this site, tbh we had no idea it would be so popular. Now that it is so popular, we need to encourage Sky staff to join us, if they choose to be anonymous, so be it.

      Information is been fed to our members through these anonymous members and information is been fed back.

      As for ADSLG, yes I have seen the posts and tbh I don't disagree with the principle of being able to research how things work, or can be improved. We just don't want to be responsible for people breaking their routers or breaking any terms and conditions.

      I have said my piece, hopefully you will now understand our stance and we can get back to helping other members out.




      ~ Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience ~

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    3. #12
      s00tie's Avatar
      s00tie is offline Sky User Member
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      I personally can see both sides of the debate and I can vouch for not only the usefulness of this site, but the quality of most of it's members and which is why I've also offered my assistance.

      At the end of the day, if the Skyuser team don't want such information posted then either accept it or move along. Harsh I know, but I'm sure it will be better than just igniting flame over flame.

      As for the policy itself, my suggestion would be to stop quoting "this breaks Sky's t's and c's" and instead only give the response that it is you as site owners that do not wish this content posted. This way, I think you will avoid some of the backlash from the numerous SkyBB users that are either without service or router and are getting increasingly frustrated with Sky.

      I worked for months running a community gaming site for another ISP and finally it was our reluctance to allow anything defamatory or in breach of their T's and C's that ended it, even though we were independent. What did we get from it in the end? From all this loyalty? Nothing, not even a thank you.

      If the site presses on with its own policies, regardless of thinking "Sky may not like this" even if the content is the same but brands it as "Skyuser's policy" I don't think you'll have half the hassle that's currently starting.

      You do not have to debate your own policy in my opinion, just enforce it

      Just my 10p
      LanCraft - A UK World of Warcraft Community

    4. #13
      dingdong's Avatar
      dingdong is offline Sky User Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by NewsreadeR View Post
      aaahh

      We aint censoring discussion on Sky's behalf,.....
      You are obviously intending using this as a business, not as a free impartial web service, otherwise you would not have sky adverts at the very top which i assume sky are paying for, and if they are not then perhaps you should ask them as all ads like this are usually paid ones. There is nothing wrong with having this as a business adslguide.org etc make money from ads and i suspect you will too. Problem is your site is not general it is tied to one isp offering which makes other advertisers less inclined to use you, leaving you with sky itself as your main source of possible revenue in the short term - this also makes it more likely you do not want to upset them and if you are not careful people will see this just as an extension of sky.... and go elsewhere for the real information

      As such not wanting to be an unpaid spokeperson on Sky's behalf - which is what i feel i have become - I hearby resign as a moderator. I will pop in now and again to see how things are going but apart from that i bid you all farewell
      Last edited by dingdong; 28-09-06 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Resignation added

    5. #14
      SatDish's Avatar
      SatDish is offline Site Founder
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      @ Richard or can i call you Dick,

      no one is forcing you to use this site so if you don't like what you see here then don't come here,

      for a first post you really are pushing it, asking questions in a civilised manor and gets better answers,

      we want this as a help forum (thats HELP) not a forum on how to hack everything sky brings out if we wanted that we would be called Sky Hacker

      The moderators strike me as a) siding with Sky b) lacking the relevant technical competence and c) failing to build a relationship with Sky technical support.
      A. nope the mods are doing what they do on the guidelines we have come up with not Sky.

      B. there is technical competence in the mods on this forum

      C. we have sent loads of emails of to Sky BB and we do have several Sky TC staff on the site hence the communication channel, there is stuff the staff say that we cant post as it would give there ID away and they would get the sack is that what you want ? but then you strike me as someone who don't care about others.

      I'm certainly not going to apologise for not allowing posts that only the minority want to see on here WE ARE A SKY BB HELP SITE,

      its not only router hacking we DON'T allow on here but topics like ...

      pirate software
      adult porn sites
      drugs
      overclocking
      getting the picture..?
      or anything else that breaks ANYONES warranty, T&C's, sexual/religious believes or laws.

      if you posted...
      "Ive got a Dell PC only got last week, and if you take the side of put in a better fan then go into bios and up the clock speed it will go faster"
      it would be deleted because it is breaking Dell's T&C's.

      our aim (well mine) for this site is to have a helpful community where people ask or answer things without getting into
      "if i do this i read on the other forums will it make my speed faster" << simple answer ask the other forums not us, if we wanted to be asked about it we would have put it on here ourselves.

      P.S. i couldn't give 2 monkeys if i upset Sky and they do read these forums so they will read this, we are here to help Sky BB user's in a friendly and non problematic way which means we take no rubbish of Sky and no rubbish of the users.

      Glenn
      Last edited by SatDish; 28-09-06 at 08:36 PM.
      "To help would be a great adventure"

    6. #15
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      dingdong your safe and SatDisk is Fired

      After reading all the replies I would like to say its nice to see so much
      support for all the gets done on here and not just by the forum staff but also all the members that chip in.

      One more thin to say on this Long Live Skyusers
      Ray

      Some Advice.. Its always advisable to inform your old ISP as soon as you have migrated that you have moved.
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    7. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by dingdong View Post
      You are obviously intending using this as a business, not as a free impartial web service, otherwise you would not have sky adverts at the very top which i assume sky are paying for, and if they are not then perhaps you should ask them as all ads like this are usually paid ones. There is nothing wrong with having this as a business adslguide.org etc make money from ads and i suspect you will too. Problem is your site is not general it is tied to one isp offering which makes other advertisers less inclined to use you, leaving you with sky itself as your main source of possible revenue in the short term - this also makes it more likely you do not want to upset them and if you are not careful people will see this just as an extension of sky.... and go elsewhere for the real information

      As such not wanting to be an unpaid spokeperson on Sky's behalf - which is what i feel i have become - I hearby resign as a moderator. I will pop in now and again to see how things are going but apart from that i bid you all farewell

      this is not a business Sky ARE NOT paying for the adverts they are on an affiliate scheme Sky DID NOT ASK US to have these put there we got sky adverts for a sky site (makes sense yes..?)

      WE DON'T CARE ABOUT UPSETTING SKY we have already upset them by having this site and some of there staff on here

      IF any money comes from them "adverts" then it will go into improving the site we aim to have a dedicated box which is just for SkyUser and therefore YOUR use, no ones pockets are being lined if anything we have lost money on this site just for YOUR use

      WE ARE A SKY BB WEBSITE NOTHING ELSE WE ONLY TALK ABOUT SKY BB understand..?

      Glenn
      "To help would be a great adventure"

    8. #17
      dingdong's Avatar
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      RE: WE ARE A SKY BB WEBSITE NOTHING ELSE WE ONLY TALK ABOUT SKY BB understand..?

      I understand that you seem terrified of upsetting sky for whatever reason - and there is no need to shout - isn't that against your t&c's?

      And as far as talking about sky bb goes - true to a very limited extent.

      I don't want to participate in a group that sensors every aspect of talking about the real problem with these routers for example and what people can do to avoid those problems. You seen totally transfixed by sky's t&c's - have you asked sky why they felt the right to take open source public software and lock it into thier own application without releasing what they have done ? Of course not.... All router software whatever the make of router uses this software it is intended for public use and as such the code is and must be released on the router manufacturer's web site. What gives sky the right to take years of peoples work and to claim it as their own in their own hardcoded router. They may well have intended to do this to ease support problems and simplyfy account creation but it was done in a way so that information normally accessible was hidden - hardly suprising that given the poor state of the "sky version" firmware that people took it into their own hand to try and get a service they were paying for.

    9. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by SatDish View Post
      our aim (well mine) for this site is to have a helpful community where people ask or answer things without getting into
      "if i do this i read on the other forums will it make my speed faster".
      I'm assuming you're talking about the URL "hack"? Anyway, if you allowed the discussion about it it would be helping users of SkyBB and would end up making the community more helpful. Also, if you allowed the discussion of hacking or whatever, you wouldn't get "if i do this i read on the other forums will it make my speed faster" since there would already be an existing thread(s) for such questions.

      Yes, I'm a user of the URL injection things and it has helped make my bb connection a pleasure to use. I had to do a few google searches to find it as I wasn't, and most likely never will be, a user of the said forum/site and didn't know where to start looking (aside from a search engine). It would have been so much easier if it was here, the place that was supposed to be the one stop for people to get help with their skybb. I would have also shared my experiences as to which worked and how well, oh well.

      In the end it's your forum, do with it what you wish. However, you're risking losing good people over this, compared to losing nothing to Sky; they've yet to give you anything (apart from the one or two tech or customer services reps who are volunteering there own time, I doubt they give a toss if the T's and C's are broken as long as it provides a solution to the customer) and simply aligning the rules of this forum to their T's and C's wont magically make them get in contact with you.
      Last edited by WiBu; 28-09-06 at 07:43 PM.

    10. #19
      SatDish's Avatar
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      I understand that you seem terrified of upsetting sky for whatever reason - and there is no need to shout - isn't that against your t&c's?
      thats just being pathetic and you know it

      im not going to get into a flame war over this,

      if you want to discuss why sky are doing what they are doing with the software then make a new thread about it, just dont mention HOW to hack in it.

      Glenn
      "To help would be a great adventure"

    11. #20
      Jose Cardoso's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by SatDish View Post
      if you posted...
      "Ive got a Dell PC only got last week, and if you take the side of put in a better fan then go into bios and up the clock speed it will go faster"
      it would be deleted because it is breaking Dell's T&C's.
      What utter rubbish. If I buy a Dell PC (God forbid), that PC is MINE to do with as I please as it is now MY property. See Section 6, Paragraph 1 in Dell's T&C's.

      Referring to Section 3, Paragraph (c) of Sky's T&C's it states clearly that the router becomes yours once you have taken possession of it (excluding the software which Sky can update or modify at their discretion). It is clear that you and other members of the forum haven't read them properly despite being completely fixated on them.

      What appears to be the major issue here is the hypocrisy being shown by moderators in relation to threads discussing router flashing or hacking.

      The primary thread discussing router flashing remains uncensored and visible to all despite the process being in clear breach of the same section and paragraph in Sky's T&C's as quoted above. The validity of Sky's claim to ownership of said software is in itself dubious given that the software is based on GPL'd code and as part of the GPL, the source code of all GPL'd code used must be made available to the community when used commercially. I fail to see any source code on the included CD other than a copy of the firmware image or even on the Sky website.

      Threads discussing the hacks that take advantage of a firmware flaw to reveal the router's embedded PPPoA username & password, to modify the router's SNR settings or to activate the embedded Telnet server are instantly censored despite there being no breach of Sky's T&C's by performing such procedures. The Sky router is still being used to access the Sky Broadband service (as required by Sky's T&C's) and Sky's firmware (or software if we stick to their wording) is unmodified and running on the Sky router even after having performed these procedures. What individuals choose to do with information obtained from these procedures is completely down to them.

      If you are going to censor information that you believe to be in breach of Sky's T&C's then censor the lot of it. Do not selectively and illogically censor bits that suit you just because you are afraid of upsetting Sky's interest in your site.

      And unless I'm mistaken aren't you breaching your own forum rule by being just as rude and insulting to a forum member? Not exactly the best example for other forum members to take on board now is it?

      # While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless inflammatory posts. Our decision is final in these matters.
      Last edited by Jose Cardoso; 28-09-06 at 08:12 PM.

     

     
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