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    Help with AVG and Email setting up on router

    This is a discussion on Help with AVG and Email setting up on router within the Sky Router forums, part of the Sky Broadband help category; hello, This thread seems a reasonable place for my firewall related questions; First of all, why does the Netgear router ...

    1. #1
      leecovuk's Avatar
      leecovuk is offline Sky User Member
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      hello,

      This thread seems a reasonable place for my firewall related questions;

      First of all, why does the Netgear router have a firewall in the first place? Surely everyone using the product would already have a firewall of some sort or choice on their computer ?

      How do you turn the Netgear firewall off? I can't find any way to do so via the browser admin config menus.

      My questions are fuelled by several frustrating hours trying to get two issues resolved, which I currently have had to give up on and try to find further help.
      Namely, I can't get AVG Anti-Virus to get a connection to update itself.
      I also can't use SMTP in Mozilla Thunderbird to send email.
      POP3 however seems to be working fine.
      (pop3.ukonline.co.uk and smtp.ukonline.co.uk)

      Those issues were all working fine in a tried and trusted way before getting Sky broadband and this darned Netgear router !
      I imagine my problems are to do with the block all / allow everything default settings in the router?

      I've seen bits and pieces on here and the web touching on my problems, and I've also seen the router's options to open ports and/or services in the router, but frankly I am still in a state of uncertainty and fail to understand how to set up those entries regarding IP address details etc.

      So, can anyone tell me if/how I can just disable the Netgear firewall?

      If that is not possible, how can I instead live with it and solve my problems above? I suspect I will also come across other access/connection issues though with other programs, which I why I am keen to just turn the Netgear firewall off or at least make it 'transparent'.

      In case it's relevant, a few details :-
      My computer is currently using the Windows Firewall but I want and plan to go back to using Sunbelt Kerio Personal Firewall.
      I have a USB dongle (successfully) in place to allow wireless communication to the Netgear router.
      I seem to have no problems with general web surfing.

      Thanks for any specific help,
      Lee
      Coventry
      Last edited by leecovuk; 28-11-06 at 03:57 AM.


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    3. #2
      NewsreadeR's Avatar
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      My questions are fuelled by several frustrating hours trying to get two issues resolved, which I currently have had to give up on and try to find further help.
      Namely, I can't get AVG Anti-Virus to get a connection to update itself.
      Should not be anything to do with the firewall on the router, must be something else.

      Try going to tools at the top of IE, internet options, connections, make sure there is a tick in never dial a connection, then go to lan settings, make sure there is no tick in use a proxy server, then click ok. Then try again.

      If still doesnt work is there an error message?

      I also can't use SMTP in Mozilla Thunderbird to send email.
      POP3 however seems to be working fine.
      (pop3.ukonline.co.uk and smtp.ukonline.co.uk)
      need to change them to: pop.sky.com and smtp.sky.com if on a Sky connection.

      If you really want to open the routers firewall up (which is a crazy idea) then you can add the rule in the router

      You need to go into the router pages, then firewall rules, then Inbound services, add, service - Any(all) Action - Allow always - send to LAN server (your pc's ip address / normally 192.168.0.2) then Apply
      Last edited by NewsreadeR; 28-11-06 at 04:20 AM.




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    4. #3
      leecovuk's Avatar
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      thanks newsreadeR,

      By the way, if you remember me from recently, this is all on that laptop I'm helping my dad set up. I (finally) managed to install and get the USB Dongle working today and thought I'd done everything because web surfing was working fine when wireless. But then I found the AVG and Thunderbird problems.

      Interesting what you say how my two problems are probably(/definitely?) not to do with the Netgear firewall; I've also seen the odd post here and there saying the same thing. Good news I suppose then !

      On the SMTP issue then, it is just a fact that Sky Broadband don't allow mail relaying through any other SMTP server than their own?
      I have UK Online broadband myself and I think I can use various ISP's SMTP servers in Thunderbird for sending emails, assuming that the server host _themselves_ allow mail relaying through them. That's how I think it works anyway.

      So the issues I've mentioned aren't falling foul of the 'block all' Netgear firewall rule then? ie these functions are going the other way presumably, which has the 'allow all' rule acting on them?
      It sounds like I'm failing to understand the principles of 'in' and 'out' when it comes to ports and protocols.

      In fact I've struggled a lot with the whole principle of this router + wireless stuff; I might tack a new post onto the other topic with a few thoughts.

      I'll visit my dad again probably tomorrow and try your advice here.

    5. #4
      NewsreadeR's Avatar
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      laymans terms:

      If you imagine a PC is a house,

      On a pc there are 65000 unlocked back doors, so anything can enter your pc.

      A router locks 65000 back doors, so noone can enter your pc / house unless you allow them.

      All the usual are welcome onto your PC (like people who live in your house)

      ie Web surfing, email, and ftp etc - the trusted ones.

      In other words with a router there is no way into your PC / house without been invited.

      With a router though, you cannot lock the door from the inside, so if the people in your house want to go out they just go out. With a software firewall, you lock the people in and they can only go out if you open the door (add a rule)

      Although I have over simplified it, you should get the idea.

      If someone is allowing server relaying, that is bad, and they could be subject to spam etc. If you are on Sky then you use their servers and no one elses.




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    6. #5
      leecovuk's Avatar
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      ok thanks, I'll read that a few more times when I'm more awake but I see what you're saying.

      Going off topic here but just briefly:-

      So a router in this context is like a 'more secure modem' ?
      I'm kind of confused by the term 'router' as I think of such a thing as being able to 'route' numerous different circuits/protocols to/from wherever ... maybe the Netgear is called a 'router' just because it can 'route' broadband connections by either ethernet or wireless? ie just the two 'route' options?

      If someone is allowing server relaying, that is bad, and they could be subject to spam etc.
      Yes indeed, in the sense that a mail server can be used to relay email spam from elsewhere. I'm sure I'll be fine using that sky smtp server.

      I always believed however that the ISP you are on wasn't relevant, and it was up to each SMTP mail server operator to make _themselves_ secure from being used for mail relaying from _elsewhere_.
      My trouble with SMTP is using smtp.ukonline.co.uk, so presumably Sky block other smtp's to protect _the others_ from being 'used' by SKY ISP customers.
      ?

      Sky Broadband seems happy to allow 'foreign' incoming POP3, which I would expect anyway, as the pop3 mail account I find works is a pop3.ukonline.co.uk account.
      Last edited by leecovuk; 28-11-06 at 05:40 AM.

    7. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by NewsreadeR View Post
      (AVG Problem) Should not be anything to do with the firewall on the router, must be something else.

      Try going to tools at the top of IE, internet options, connections, make sure there is a tick in never dial a connection, then go to lan settings, make sure there is no tick in use a proxy server, then click ok. Then try again.

      If still doesnt work is there an error message?
      From memory those IE settings are as you've suggested but I'll double check.
      The AVG Updater didn't seem to generate an obvious error but just seemed to 'stall' whilst trying numerous connection attempts. I could probably find an AVG log and look in there.

      On the AVG subject, what do you think of the following brief thread from elsewhere? I don't know how much you know (although you're obviously very knowledgeable) but does it throw a different light on things? I personally don't understand what the offered solution means, although I could probably find the particular setting. :

      http://forum1.netgear.com/showthread...rewall#post766

      thanks again.

    8. #7
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      1. Re why have the firewall? NewsreadeR describes it very poetically. You might want to Google on the phrase "perimeter security". It'll tell you about design of secure networks.

      2. Why the term router? A router is a device that routes. (And indeed makes pretty patterns in wood - but that's another story!) What it routes is neither here or there, but generally it routes IP packets. To route is to receive a packet, look at where it is destined (or occasionally where it has come from but that's not common) and decide which interface (network card) to send the packet back out on and then send it. Simple!

      3. Is it a glorified modem? The Sky router also contains a modem, but the modem components are separate. (Different chips and software.)

      4. Is it a firewall? Yes, it's got one of those as well - it is actually a sexy packet filter inside the firmware.

      5. Can you switch it off? Not through the user interface. It can be done from the command prompt, but as there is absolutely no reason to do so, I'm not going to say how. No, really, don't. (As the say in Brainiacs.)

      6. Is the AVG problem to do with the firewall? No. The firewall allows any outbound packets to any destination and the replies. Also, I run AVG with no such problems.*

      7. Re SMTP - no Sky do not force you to use any particular SMTP server - you can choose which ever one you want. Provided, of course, you have permissions to. Sky are, however, kind enough to allow you to use theirs if you so wish. (I use it.)

      * AVG update is quite sensitive to intemittent connections, however. You might want to post your line stats.

      Did I miss anything?
      IQ album "Dark Matter" artwork reproduced with permission. See www.gep.co.uk/iq for more information.

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      Leecov,on the AVG issue, I get the same thing now and again but it's normally only once in a blue moon. In fact I had exactly the same issue as you last night.

      By the next day I'll turn my PC on and the system will carry on to update itself.TBH m8 I wouldn't really concern yourself too much with the odd delay. Overall it's a sound system and I love it to be fair!!

    10. #9
      leecovuk's Avatar
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      great, thanks very much Stevieboy and mossywell for those excellent replies.

      It sounds then that the only thing I may have to tweak is the SMTP server in Thunderbird, regarding authentication / password etc. I'll find out my dad's sky webmail username and password from his letter and give those a go.

      My trouble here in general is I'm doing this for my dad, so when I come across unexpected trouble I have to wander away with my tail between my legs then do some research and go round there again to get it working !

      From what I can tell, signal strength and quality when wireless is '100% / excellent'.

      Are there any general XP settings any of you would recommend for avoiding any little annoyances? Such as 'tick' or 'untick' a particular checkbox here and there?

      One component it seemed I need to install/enable was the Internet Gateway Device Discovery and Control Client, under Add/Remove Windows Components, Networking Services.
      I also noticed that the Properties of the connection itself seemed to have about 5 services/protocols set up on it; I forget offhand what they are but does that sound about right?

      In case it's relevant I used the Sky Broadband and Netgear Dongle disks to 'automatically' set up things.
      The only manual things I have done on the advice of some people on here are :

      1) changed the password in the Netgear interface from 'sky' to something else
      2) turned off 'uPnP' in there
      3) turned off the 'WAN ping' option (I forget the actual name of it right now)

      I also found, after installing the Dongle, that I had to manually enter the security 'passphrase' as found on the card which came with the router. That caused me trouble too before I finally noticed it needs to be case sensitive !

      thanks a lot again,
      Lee

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      Quote Originally Posted by leecovuk View Post
      My trouble here in general is I'm doing this for my dad, so when I come across unexpected trouble I have to wander away with my tail between my legs then do some research and go round there again to get it working !
      You should try doing it for a living.

      Everything else you say is right, but I would add that that as you have disabled upnp on the router, you can (unless you have other upnp devices on the LAN) switch off (uninstall) the Internet Gateway Discovery tool. Control Panel --> Windows Stuff --> Networking stuff --> Untick the two upnp items and hit OK a few zillion times.
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