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    Idiots?

    This is a discussion on Idiots? within the Sky Router forums, part of the Sky Broadband help category; Just joined up, lots of good interaction going one here. Not impressed with Sky Technical Support so did a web ...

    1. #1
      OriginalMofo's Avatar
      OriginalMofo is offline Sky User Member
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      Idiots?

      Just joined up, lots of good interaction going one here.

      Not impressed with Sky Technical Support so did a web search and found this forum. My apologies for going on a bit here, I need to vent my anger.

      I just upgraded my Sky subs. to HD and decided to add a Sky broadband on my second line, I know enough about networking to share the two WANs and use a dedicated PC running Smoothwall on Linux to act as a secure firewall at the WAN connection already. It was to be fairly straightforward to add another ADSL modem to the PC and share the bandwidth load. Ha!

      I accepted the Sky router and left it in a drawer since I thought I didn't need it (Doh!), called sky to tell them I hadn't received my user/password. That's when they decided to tell me that it was in the T's & C's that I was to only use the supplied router and wasn't party to the user/password since it was burned in the firmware (I now see plenty on that in this forum). "Oh bugger" I said, so after a few moments searching through boxes of hardware I found a LAN card, put that in the Linux PC and setup the Sky router between the two. All connected up and onto config.

      I guessed the user pass (user never changes from "admin" on a Netgear), and when password didn't work I tried "sky". Then I found that the settings for NAT or RIP are hidden. I did a config backup and discovered that NAT is enabled by default and RIP is defaulted to RIP-1. NAT Enabled = good; RIP-1 = bugger!

      A bit of background: Both my eldest boys have XBoxes in their bedrooms with XBox Live. When they both played they would experience uber-lag and random disconnection. This was on my other connection (A pipex business line with unlimited B/W) they used to suffer with routing issues when both online. The router on this line at the time was a DG834, and after dozens of calls with XBox Support and running through the ritual "set port 88 and 3074 to TCP/UDP" etc. etc. and "Enable NAT" and "Try assigning IP's" (it got very tedious) I decided to call Netgear.

      Netgear had encountered this and advised that the issue was due to multi-casting, and that I should enable RIP-2M in the DG834. Having done this everything worked fine. It was a fairly simple task to mimic this when I transferred to the Linux Firewall PC.

      Ok having now got the Sky broadband I thought I'd re-route them and transfer their XBoxes from my business line and free up bandwidth - I only get 2Mb on each - but the uber-lag and disconnect problems have returned. Ah! I'll call Sky Tech. Support and ask them to enable RIP-2M in the router for me (I'd read the bit in the T's & C's about them updating firmware remotely).

      The call did not go well. I explianed my predicament fairly concisely, the reply was "Do you want help with Port Forwarding?". I explained it again, this time being more specific at each section of the explanation, "We don't support XBox issues, why don't you call Netgear?". I replied "Why would Netgear help with with a Sky custom firmware when they have no control over it?" The guy went to talk to his manager.

      When he returned he said I should try Wireless Networking | Dsl Internet | Router Configuration | Open Ports at Portforwarding.com, I tried it then and there, and it was clear that it was an attempt by the guy's manager to get rid of me. I re-iterated my need for multicasting to be enabled, I then continued that it was rather rude of Sky to impose such inflexible T's & C's upon me after agreeing the contract.

      I continued that I would probably never be in a position to watch live TV over broadband anyway with such poor B/W, and why would I anyway when I have Sky+ and Freeview on the TV with a PVR? Just how much TV do they expect people to watch? This fell on deaf ears - "Neither any of my team nor my manager have ever heard of RIP, what is it, what does it mean?" came the reply.

      I paused for thought, then asked if was talking with the highest level of technical support available to me from Sky Broadband. This was confirmed and the guy asked if I was sure that Routing Information Protocol was real.

      I'd had enough of this by now (46 minute phone call) and asked if ther was any way to escalate this issue to the people responsible for the firmware. He said no. The call ended.

      I called straight back, went through the menus to make sure I had the right department. Went through it all again with another guy, he hadn't heard of RIP either but agreed to escalate it to the hardware team (yes there is one!). They would call me back in 72 hours, it didn't happen.

      So, who are the idiots? The tech guys at sky for having no knowledge of multi-casting, or the likes of me for subscribing to this total gob****e broadband service with a router setup and technical support designed for simpletons? Bah!


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    3. #2
      indefatigable's Avatar
      indefatigable is offline Sky User Member
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      Re: Idiots?

      Quote Originally Posted by OriginalMofo View Post
      Just joined up, lots of good interaction going one here.

      Not impressed with Sky Technical Support so did a web search and found this forum. My apologies for going on a bit here, I need to vent my anger.

      I just upgraded my Sky subs. to HD and decided to add a Sky broadband on my second line, I know enough about networking to share the two WANs and use a dedicated PC running Smoothwall on Linux to act as a secure firewall at the WAN connection already. It was to be fairly straightforward to add another ADSL modem to the PC and share the bandwidth load. Ha!

      I accepted the Sky router and left it in a drawer since I thought I didn't need it (Doh!), called sky to tell them I hadn't received my user/password. That's when they decided to tell me that it was in the T's & C's that I was to only use the supplied router and wasn't party to the user/password since it was burned in the firmware (I now see plenty on that in this forum). "Oh bugger" I said, so after a few moments searching through boxes of hardware I found a LAN card, put that in the Linux PC and setup the Sky router between the two. All connected up and onto config.

      I guessed the user pass (user never changes from "admin" on a Netgear), and when password didn't work I tried "sky". Then I found that the settings for NAT or RIP are hidden. I did a config backup and discovered that NAT is enabled by default and RIP is defaulted to RIP-1. NAT Enabled = good; RIP-1 = bugger!

      A bit of background: Both my eldest boys have XBoxes in their bedrooms with XBox Live. When they both played they would experience uber-lag and random disconnection. This was on my other connection (A pipex business line with unlimited B/W) they used to suffer with routing issues when both online. The router on this line at the time was a DG834, and after dozens of calls with XBox Support and running through the ritual "set port 88 and 3074 to TCP/UDP" etc. etc. and "Enable NAT" and "Try assigning IP's" (it got very tedious) I decided to call Netgear.

      Netgear had encountered this and advised that the issue was due to multi-casting, and that I should enable RIP-2M in the DG834. Having done this everything worked fine. It was a fairly simple task to mimic this when I transferred to the Linux Firewall PC.

      Ok having now got the Sky broadband I thought I'd re-route them and transfer their XBoxes from my business line and free up bandwidth - I only get 2Mb on each - but the uber-lag and disconnect problems have returned. Ah! I'll call Sky Tech. Support and ask them to enable RIP-2M in the router for me (I'd read the bit in the T's & C's about them updating firmware remotely).

      The call did not go well. I explianed my predicament fairly concisely, the reply was "Do you want help with Port Forwarding?". I explained it again, this time being more specific at each section of the explanation, "We don't support XBox issues, why don't you call Netgear?". I replied "Why would Netgear help with with a Sky custom firmware when they have no control over it?" The guy went to talk to his manager.

      When he returned he said I should try Wireless Networking | Dsl Internet | Router Configuration | Open Ports at Portforwarding.com, I tried it then and there, and it was clear that it was an attempt by the guy's manager to get rid of me. I re-iterated my need for multicasting to be enabled, I then continued that it was rather rude of Sky to impose such inflexible T's & C's upon me after agreeing the contract.

      I continued that I would probably never be in a position to watch live TV over broadband anyway with such poor B/W, and why would I anyway when I have Sky+ and Freeview on the TV with a PVR? Just how much TV do they expect people to watch? This fell on deaf ears - "Neither any of my team nor my manager have ever heard of RIP, what is it, what does it mean?" came the reply.

      I paused for thought, then asked if was talking with the highest level of technical support available to me from Sky Broadband. This was confirmed and the guy asked if I was sure that Routing Information Protocol was real.

      I'd had enough of this by now (46 minute phone call) and asked if ther was any way to escalate this issue to the people responsible for the firmware. He said no. The call ended.

      I called straight back, went through the menus to make sure I had the right department. Went through it all again with another guy, he hadn't heard of RIP either but agreed to escalate it to the hardware team (yes there is one!). They would call me back in 72 hours, it didn't happen.

      So, who are the idiots? The tech guys at sky for having no knowledge of multi-casting, or the likes of me for subscribing to this total gob****e broadband service with a router setup and technical support designed for simpletons? Bah!
      First of all, there is no 'Hardware' team. Your case will have been passed to CST, who you were speaking to before. The advisor will just have agreed with you to satiate you.

      Secondly, they did not impose these rules on you after you signed up. These rules have been in place since the inception of Sky Broadband, and the terms and conditions are freely available on the Sky website, as well as other unofficial sources. You don't even need to log in to Sky to see them.

      Finally, you will not be able to get the RIP changed. It is a hard coded setting. To change this is to change the firmware, and Sky are not going to write a custom firmware just for you. The bit about updating the firmware remotely refers to when a whole new firmware version is available, not adjusting settings within the router remotely.

      Sky do not support gaming to this extent. They have only recently started offering connection help for consoles. Anything more, and your on your own. No-one at Sky will be able to help you with this.

      However, and I know this for fact, there are other ways around it. We do occasionally get people who have more than 1 xbox, and have the same problem as you. They find ways around it (and they don't break the T&Cs to do it) so if you look online, there is definetely a way to do it yourself. (I think it might involve setting one of the xboxes as the DMZ, but don't quote me on that)

      and you are right, the Sky service is designed to be basic. It is designed in a way taht if you have never had broadband before, you would be able to set it up an start using it within 15 minutes. Whilst it doesn't always go that way, that is the intention. It is not a service designed around techies, or people who require more advanced features.

    4. #3
      Smithy99's Avatar
      Smithy99 is offline Sky User Member
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      Re: Idiots?

      I think the users who have sorted out the 2 Xboes problem have either piggy backed a second router to the Sky one or just gotten their username and password and used a different one all together.

      There are plenty to threads on here telling you how to get them.

    5. #4
      emrobin's Avatar
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      Re: Idiots?

      Both my boys play Xbox live simultaneously, often with no problems. Our biggest limitation comes during peak times when our line is throttled. I do have a separate router upstairs that my son connects his Xbox through while the one downstairs connects directly to the Sky provided router.

      Sky does not support Xbox? Please explain their adverts for Sky player on Xbox 360? It seems they support it until you need support beyond their limited technical expertise. Once you've reached that, you're going to get the "we don't support Xbox 360".
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    6. #5
      PaulSky's Avatar
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      Re: Idiots?

      Just because they advertise on the Xbox platform it doesn't mean they fully suppport the setup and running of the hardware. Sky tech support is there to support the Sky hardware setup.

    7. #6
      emrobin's Avatar
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      Re: Idiots?

      Quote Originally Posted by PaulSky View Post
      Just because they advertise on the Xbox platform it doesn't mean they fully suppport the setup and running of the hardware. Sky tech support is there to support the Sky hardware setup.
      They shouldn't be advertising anything regarding Xbox Live if they're not going to ensure you can actually get it on your Xbox. Why? Because they're clearly trying to pull Xbox Live users in by doing this and once they have them, they're telling them they do not support Xbox Live connectivity issues. Seems a bit one-sided to me.

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    8. #7
      paulcarrm9mx's Avatar
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      Re: Idiots?

      the first poster should have gone for a business connection he MUST be running a home business which is against sky T&C's. all you need to do is connect 1 cable and your up and running

    9. #8
      IWasNotTheEnemy's Avatar
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      Re: Idiots?

      That is regarding SkyPlayer - available on ALL broadband connections - so is nothing to do with Sky Broadband in particular
      -------------------------------------------



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    10. #9
      emrobin's Avatar
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      Re: Idiots?

      Quote Originally Posted by paulcarrm9mx View Post
      the first poster should have gone for a business connection he MUST be running a home business which is against sky T&C's. all you need to do is connect 1 cable and your up and running
      He stated in his original post that he already has a line that he uses for business so he IS NOT using his Sky line for business.
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    11. #10
      emrobin's Avatar
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      Re: Idiots?

      Quote Originally Posted by IWasNotTheEnemy View Post
      That is regarding SkyPlayer - available on ALL broadband connections - so is nothing to do with Sky Broadband in particular
      I'd like to think they'd care a little more about their customers that not only subscribe to their TV service, but their broadband service as well. I see your point though. SkyPlayer is a service for any Sky customer no matter who their broadband provider is. You're just out of luck if you're a Sky Connect customer though.
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