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    New black router with firmware V2.02.34

    This is a discussion on New black router with firmware V2.02.34 within the Sky Router forums, part of the Sky Broadband help category; Originally Posted by djkemp1 i don't think they will throw anyone off for using their own router, they will lose ...

    1. #11
      indefatigable's Avatar
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      Re: New black router with firmware V2.02.34

      Quote Originally Posted by djkemp1 View Post
      i don't think they will throw anyone off for using their own router, they will lose a lot of custom if they did and it goes against EU policies as companies cannot dictate what equipment you use.
      They can if you have agreed to it, which every Sky customer has by accepting the T&Cs. It states in there that the Sky router must be used to access the internet.

      But you can use it as a gateway, as previously mentioned, and then connect other networking equipment to it. Nothing stopping you from doing that. I have 2 switches connected to mine (i run a lot of lan games, and have several PCs which I dont trust on a wireless network) so its all good.


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    3. #12
      djkemp1's Avatar
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      Re: New black router with firmware V2.02.34

      well i can see that to an extent however like i say if the routers that are supplied aren't good enough and not up to the job then how can they throw me off for using equipment that does work?

      the problem i find with 2 routers is that they have to both be plugged in using a lot of electric and the netgear router tends to get very hot

    4. #13
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      Question Re: New black router with firmware V2.02.34

      Hi all,

      as far as i can tell, if you were to use an adsl router which spoofs the mac address (Such as the Draytek 2800's) of the wan IP then sky would have no way of detecting whether you're using another brand router, then you could cleverly port forward the router's tftp port to the original box hung off of one of the ethernet ports to the original box stuck away someplace.

      I have used the draytek range at our place of work as they are very flexible.. such a method has been used by myself on their cable router (2910) after being on Virgin media and registering their service on a laptop, i then copied the mac address onto the router and it worked a treat. Sadly this is no longer the case as we moved house and I lost my 20mb broadband on VM which was far superior and more reliable.. Now I'm stuck with just over 5mb, which in fairness is ok since i live 2km from the dslam.. (Easynet/sky telephone kit at xchange) However VM don't levy such ridiculous T&C's as to impose that the end user must use their own provided router (which is daft imho) Plus, if you did get caught and got thrown off, so what?

      H.

    5. #14
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      Re: New black router with firmware V2.02.34

      then sky would have no way of detecting whether you're using another brand router
      Would that router spoof the Vendor ID?

      If not then Sky would have a way of telling. afaik Sky can tell whether you use the Netgear or the Sagem or indeed any other router, by this method.




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    6. #15
      djkemp1's Avatar
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      Re: New black router with firmware V2.02.34

      do you think that sky would ever try and enforce this and would they give warning 1st that they will be starting to enforce the policy? if they do is there a way that people with the netgear routers can get the sagem routers if they are better with better wireless facility? or do we have to stick with a crappy router and wait until they throw us off the network if we continue to use our own routers that does the job perfectly well?

    7. #16
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      Re: New black router with firmware V2.02.34

      At the prices they charge, I don't think Sky are aiming to make a fortune from selling broadband services. In the immediate term, I'd imagine that they are aiming to retain Sky TV subscribers who might have been tempted away by all-inclusive deals offered by other companies, and to recruit new subscribers by telling them can get Sky TV AND broadband for less than they could be paying for broadband alone.

      In the longer term, they'll be aiming to sell you stuff over your broadband connection, from more advanced interactive services to huge libraries of on-demand films and programmes. Such services are likely to need features that aren't always available on low-end or mid-range ADSL routers - things like Quality of Service (QoS) features, multiple circuit support and IGMP support. Most of the mid-range ADSL equipment is capable of providing such features, but would need customised firmware to make it work.

      So if you think about things from Sky's point of view, every customer using their own router is another potential consumer of those services lost. Of course, chucking a customer off their broadband service is also another potential consumer lost, but I rather suspect that most of the people using their own router are the kind of people who wouldn't like to be without broadband for an extended period. As a result of that, I can imagine that given the choice between refusing to connect the Sky router, getting a MAC code and moving to a different ISP, or agreeing to plug in the Sky router and have Sky reactivate the account, most would choose the latter.

      As for detecting people using their own router, as I pointed out in another thread, the easiest way to do it is to monitor attempts to access the update server. If a router doesn't contact the update server for more than, say, a month, then that router's credentials could be removed from the RADIUS servers. This would not only stop people using a non-Sky router, but would also clear the huge number of defunct entries, such as those of routers which have been declared faulty and replaced.

    8. #17
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      Re: New black router with firmware V2.02.34

      Hi Newsreader,

      Yes, the router will spoof the vendor id which is the first three numbers of the hw mac address. it's dead easy to do if your router supports it.

      You could easily hang the existing router on a lan port behind the new one and it would get a dhcp address for your *real* router, then connecting to the software update site (it's an SVN server on their private network) so you'd needn't worry about that. It's a no brainer if you are really worried about it.

      Quote Originally Posted by NewsreadeR View Post
      Would that router spoof the Vendor ID?

      If not then Sky would have a way of telling. afaik Sky can tell whether you use the Netgear or the Sagem or indeed any other router, by this method.

    9. #18
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      Re: New black router with firmware V2.02.34

      yes i can see your point james. surely if they were to start enforcing this in the future though some kind of warning would go out wouldn't it?

      why can't they send customers the routers that have decent wireless capability instead of cheap rubbish that doesn't work well at all? if they did this everyone would use their router instead of unplugging it and going back to a good stable one.

    10. #19
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      Re: New black router with firmware V2.02.34

      Quote Originally Posted by Hugh72 View Post
      Yes, the router will spoof the vendor ID which is the first three numbers of the hw mac address. it's dead easy to do if your router supports it.
      You're thinking of the Ethernet MAC address vendor ID. There's also an 8-byte ADSL Vendor code (the first four bytes of which usually spell out an abbreviation of the vendor's name) and that'll be buried within the ADSL driver code. I wouldn't say it's absolutely impossible to change it, but it's a lot more involved than changing the router's MAC address.

      Quote Originally Posted by djkemp1 View Post
      yes i can see your point james. surely if they were to start enforcing this in the future though some kind of warning would go out wouldn't it?

      why can't they send customers the routers that have decent wireless capability instead of cheap rubbish that doesn't work well at all? if they did this everyone would use their router instead of unplugging it and going back to a good stable one.
      It's wireless technology that's rubbish, not the routers. I remain sceptical of anyone who claims that one router's wireless abilities are head and shoulders above those of another. I'm sure there are some cases where one router almost works and a different router just about works - which might be interpreted as "first router, bad, second router, good", but as a rule, these routers are all working to the same specs, with the same limits on output power, and that means there really isn't much to chose between then.

      Probably the biggest practical difference between routers is the aerial - internal aerial of the Sky V2 routers doesn't look particular powerful (it's a plate of metal in the shape of an F), so I would expect it to be a bit worse than a router with a decent, external aerial. But a lot worse? I doubt it.

    11. #20
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      Re: New black router with firmware V2.02.34

      Quote Originally Posted by indefatigable View Post
      They can if you have agreed to it, which every Sky customer has by accepting the T&Cs. It states in there that the Sky router must be used to access the internet.
      Actually that is only partly true. They can ONLY if you have agreed to it AND it is lawful.

      If you didn't read it, you could not have known it was there and therefore could not have agreed to it. Also, any term in a contract, which is not lawful, cannot be enforced in law and is not binding.

      In certain circumstances, if the unenforceable term were to go to the root of the contract, it is even possible that it is capable of making the whole contract null and void.

      That's not to say they wouldn't chuck you off anyway.

      The problem is to find which part of the Treaty of Rome applies and which statutes have been enacted subsequently that would 'protect' you should either situation take place.

      Better be like me and not give a damn if the find out and chuck you off or not. Its only a cheap broadband connection after all.

      RTB.

     

     
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