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    TalkTalk and Sky Broadband Non-Committal on Use of BTís FTTP Network

    This is a discussion on TalkTalk and Sky Broadband Non-Committal on Use of BTís FTTP Network within the Sky news and announcements forums, part of the SkyUser Announcements category; TalkTalk and Sky Broadband Non-Committal on Use of BT's FTTP Network - ISPreview UK Openreach recently announced that their ultra-fast ...

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      TalkTalk and Sky Broadband Non-Committal on Use of BTís FTTP Network

      TalkTalk and Sky Broadband Non-Committal on Use of BT's FTTP Network - ISPreview UK
      Openreach recently announced that their ultra-fast 330Mbps capable (soon to reach 1Gbps) Fibre-to-the-Premise (FTTP) broadband network will reach 2 million UK premises by 2020 (here), but residential users face a limited choice of affordable ISPs and BTís rivals see adoption problems.

      At this point itís easy to forget that BTOpenreach has been rolling out pure fibre optic FTTP services commercially since 2009/10 and thatís excluding some of their much older experiments, but so far their product has only been made available to 300,000 premises and only a few smaller ISPs, outside of BT itself, actually offer it (e.g. Zen Internet, AAISP).

      Naturally one of the reasons for this is likely to stem from the potential for confusion, with bigger ISPs perhaps not wanting to promote something that only a very small population could actually receive. On the other hand BT itself gets around this by hiding their FTTP packages behind the standard availability check and only showing them when relevant (a model that others could follow, if they wanted).

      BT Retailís FTTP Pricing

      Unlimited Infinity 3 (200Mbps)

      £45 per month + £18.99 line rental

      Unlimited Infinity 4 (300Mbps)

      £52 per month + £18.99 line rental

      NOTE: A 12 month contract, with no activation fee, applies.
      We should point out Openreachís FTTP also offers several slower speed 40Mbps, 55Mbps and 80Mbps options that match the monthly wholesale rentals of their cheaper mass-market Fibre-to-the-Cabinet (FTTC) products of the same speed (here), which makes the transition easier to sell. Admittedly the connection fee is a little more expensive (£92 +vat), but not discouragingly so.

      A Spokesperson for TalkTalk told ISPreview.co.uk:

      ďWe are keen to learn more from Openreach following recent announcements to expand the reach of their FTTP network to more homes and businesses, and we would be very interested to see more details. Once we know more about the locations and volumes of new premises, we will be able to make our own plans about how we can add this service to our portfolio.

      We have also been working hard on our own plans to provide fibre to the premises. In York our Universal Fibre Offering (UFO) is an exciting opportunity for us to explore alternative models for providing faster Broadband speeds cost effectively for our customers.Ē
      ISPreview.co.uk privately engaged several ISPs over this question and the feedback we received suggests that a number of obstacles may be hampering adoption of Openreachís FTTP. One possible dilemma here is that TalkTalk and others also have their own limited FTTP networks and separate ambitions, which is sometimes hard to slot in alongside Openreachís different model.

      Most ISPs also noted how theyíd have to develop new ordering systems and re-train their staff, all of which adds an extra level to the cost and thatís more of an issue with a service of low availability. On top of that Openreachís planned FTTP roll-out (here) will have a large focus on business coverage, which reflects a big chunk of the 2 million target and that east into the residential impact.

      Another issue is that the most affordable FTTP options are sold as a ďTransition Productď, which means that you have to take it alongside an existing line rental service (WLR or MPF). It is possible to terminate the line rental, but if you do that then the FTTP price rises sharply to compensate (e.g. 40Mbps FTTP = £82.80 +vat per annum + line rental at wholesale or £183.48 standalone). NOTE: These costs reflect wholesale, not retail prices (i.e. data, features, profits, VAT have yet to be included).

      A couple of providers werenít too happy about the above approach, although we should point out that Virgin Mediaís cable and Skyís own trial FTTP network adopt a similar design. Sadly Sky Broadband, which recently confirmed they had no plans to build an FTTP/H network of their own (here), were generally unwilling to give us their position.

      In the past some ISPs have also highlighted concerns over the cost of data capacity / bandwidth, which made them fear that offering ultrafast FTTP to home users could be too much of a burden (i.e. without making it so expensive as to be unattractive). Never the less they may have to adapt, particularly with 300Mbps G.fast being just around the corner.

      Overall Openreach has been putting a lot of effort towards turning FTTP into a viable mass market deployment, with most of their improvements occurring on the expensive roll-out and end-user installation side. At the same time ISPs that worry about needing to re-train staff or upgrade their systems will no doubt have to do some of this for G.fast anyway, which may present an opportunity to add support for FTTP.

      At the end of the day we hear from a growing number of consumers who want to order FTTP via Openreachís network, but they donít all wish to take it from BT or a more expensive business ISP. Hopefully one of these days TalkTalk, Sky Broadband and others will find a way to help meet that demand, but for now it still seems to be a waiting game.


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      Re: TalkTalk and Sky Broadband Non-Committal on Use of BTís FTTP Network

      Two things on that, it will not be mass market at £45 to £52 a month, so that has probably precluded any decent uptake.
      They all should really first be trying to build a better infrastructure for many who still have very low speeds first.

      They mention the UFO thing, but that seems to have stalled or been put on the back burner for expansion, whatever happened to it and is anyone out there using it as a paying customer yet?

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      Re: TalkTalk and Sky Broadband Non-Committal on Use of BTís FTTP Network

      It's the potential installation fee that puts me off.

      Since you're talking about paying BTO to lay the Fibre cable from your Fibre cabinet to your home, it could cost anything from £500-£1,500 for most people. For most people this alone would be a deal breaker.

      Personally I would advocate setting up a 2nd FTTC line and use a suitable router that can divert traffic via both lines. Sure it would only give you a potential 160mb connection on the downstream, but you'd get a potential 40mb on the upstream which is more than the 30mb that the FTTP product offers.

      Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro: Connected at 80,000 kbps / 20,000 kbps
      Previous ADSL2+ Speed 19999 kbps 1153 kbps, Line Attenuation 17.5 db 6.9 db, Noise Margin 7.5 dB 8.7 dB
      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

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      Re: TalkTalk and Sky Broadband Non-Committal on Use of BTís FTTP Network

      Yeah the potential cost of installation is high. I would swallow it if I had 1-2Mb internet, but as I get the full 80 - I find it difficult to justify the installation for the sake of even faster when 80Mbps, honestly, is pretty much fast enough.

      Now, G.fast however.....
      Current Sync 79999/19999

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      Re: TalkTalk and Sky Broadband Non-Committal on Use of BTís FTTP Network

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      It's the potential installation fee that puts me off.

      Since you're talking about paying BTO to lay the Fibre cable from your Fibre cabinet to your home, it could cost anything from £500-£1,500 for most people. For most people this alone would be a deal breaker.

      Personally I would advocate setting up a 2nd FTTC line and use a suitable router that can divert traffic via both lines. Sure it would only give you a potential 160mb connection on the downstream, but you'd get a potential 40mb on the upstream which is more than the 30mb that the FTTP product offers.
      For that to work properly you need your ISP to support it and I don't think any do. From what I understand, load-balancing routers wouldn't give that but otherwise but you could have 2 different PC's getting 80Mb/20Mb each.
      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of Sky

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      Re: TalkTalk and Sky Broadband Non-Committal on Use of BTís FTTP Network

      My main concern is the ability to switch relatively easily/cheaply.

      I've been constantly switching ISPs for the last 8 years so this is important to me, I'd rather take my current FTTC connection but be able to get a decent deal than be stuck with an ISP because switching is a pain/expensive.

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      It's the potential installation fee that puts me off.

      Since you're talking about paying BTO to lay the Fibre cable from your Fibre cabinet to your home, it could cost anything from £500-£1,500 for most people. For most people this alone would be a deal breaker.

      Personally I would advocate setting up a 2nd FTTC line and use a suitable router that can divert traffic via both lines. Sure it would only give you a potential 160mb connection on the downstream, but you'd get a potential 40mb on the upstream which is more than the 30mb that the FTTP product offers.
      By that point I'd say BT might as well just install FTTP.

      Chances are the reason for the high price is the 'niche' nature of the technology/BT'd reluctance to endorse it. If everyone suddenly needed a second line, chances are the FTTP price would tumble.

     

     

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