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    Help Please???

    This is a discussion on Help Please??? within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Yeah so basically got activated today on the max 16mb package, around 500 metres from the Chorlton exchange in manchester, ...

    1. #1
      Layton's Avatar
      Layton is offline Sky User Member
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      Help Please???

      Yeah so basically got activated today on the max 16mb package, around 500 metres from the Chorlton exchange in manchester, also a technician recently told us we could receive Be's 24mb service on our line if we wanted so no issue there.

      When i download anything even off secure servers such as Microsoft the download quickly starts at 1.4mb but then immediately drop to 500kb then steadily drops down to 100kb roughly, my router says i am receiving 15'000 kb downstream and 694kbs up, i have used TCPOptimizer but theres no difference, also no difference if i use wired or wireless.

      Spoke to Sky, one guy asked me what i meant by an 'exchange', then i was told tier 3 will phone me back in 5 days or so, which isn't good as i kind of rely on the internet wholely for university and working. Any ideas????


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    3. #2
      Layton's Avatar
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      Re: Help Please???

      System Up Time 02:23:31
      Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
      WAN PPPoA 176915 169359 0 1544 27278 02:21:13
      LAN 10M/100M 1968 0 0 23 0 02:23:29
      WLAN 11M/54M 172963 181491 0 27265 1842 02:23:19


      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 14283 kbps 764 kbps
      Line Attenuation 20.5 db 10.9 db
      Noise Margin 6.6 db 12.0 db

    4. #3
      Saturday's Avatar
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      Re: Help Please???

      Welcome to the forum

      Just a guess but it could be that your line is generating a lot of errors and so the router is working very hard to correct them. As the download progresses the cumulative effect of all the retransmissions and error corrections suppress the download speed.

      Checking whether this is a possibility is relatively easy and involves extracting a more detailed set of stats from your router. The easiest way to do this is via Mognut's excellent utility (you'll find various descriptions/discussions in the Tech forum).

      When you have the stats please post again.

      If line errors are the problem then this is normally fairly easily resolved, though sadly, Sky's solution will almost certainly be to cap your line speed. Let's see if we can avoid that

    5. #4
      Layton's Avatar
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      Re: Help Please???

      yeah it won't work when i ask for detailed stats but when i clicked on changing the signal to noise, when i look at my router now connected downstairs instead of the old 14'200kb down i am getting 15'323kb down??

    6. #5
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      Re: Help Please???

      well now with a download accelorator i can get 1.2mb downloads on microsofts site, but nowhere near that anywhere else, more like 300kb or lower, i got DMT tool for the netgear router, but when i try to connect with it to the router's IP the port flases red, which is currently 23? What should i change my signal to noise ratio and attenuation to??

    7. #6
      Saturday's Avatar
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      Re: Help Please???

      No offence intended but I did give you a fairly detailed answer as to what to do next. If you use Mognut's utility just follow the screen prompts.

      You can't run the DMT tool on the Sky router AFAIK and in any event, you can't change the attenuation of your line. Again, not meaning to be rude but if you're struggling to understand the basics you possibly shouldn't be trying to change router parameters until you know what they mean and what the effects would be.

      You'll find a lot of useful posts on the forum, many of them in stickies. You might like to start by reading the first one in my signature below to understand why changing your noise margin has changed your connection speed.

      Lastly, if you can get steady 1.2mb downloads from one site then it seems fairly obvious to me it's not your connection or router which is causing slower speeds from other sites. You said "when i look at my router now connected downstairs". If you're connected wirelessly then that's probably the problem.
      Last edited by Saturday; 13-02-07 at 06:16 PM.

    8. #7
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      Re: Help Please???

      Hi, Layton,

      Log into your Sky Router as Admin and check the Noise Margin figure in the Show Statistics window. The lower this gets, the more noise there is on your BT Line and the lower your EFFECTIVE bandwidth will be.

      Yes, EFFECTIVE bandwidth! It's not the same as your ADSL Package speed, and not the same

      MAXIMUM Bandwidth

      This is the bandwidth your ADSL Package actually supports. Even if your BT Line supports faster than this, it's LIMITED to it. With Sky Broadband Max, it's 16384Kbps downstream, 768Kbps upstream. However, due to your BT Line length, quality and noise level, you'll usually get less than this downstream figure.

      Basically, the faster the ADSL Package, the higher the frequency range that gets enabled on your line. This is split down into hundreds of 4KHz wide "Channels" (which BT call Discrete MultiTones, DMT for short), with each Channel carrying a SMALL part of the bandwidth. Basically, you're allocated however many Channels whose small bandwidths add up to equal your ADSL Package's downstream bandwidth. Out of these, Channels (at the low frequency end) equalling your upstream bandwidth are designated Bidirectional (so they can carry upstream as well as downstream signals).

      AVAILABLE Bandwidth

      This is simply your downstream sync speed, which is the maximum bandwidth your BT Line supports as detected by your Router when it "synced" with the BT Exchange.

      Sync speed detection is done by your Router performing a "Channel Analysis" test during its attempt to "sync" with the BT Exchange. This tests ALL possible Channels specified by your ADSL Package and determines the maximum Channel frequency your line reliably supports at YOUR distance from the BT Exchange (beyond this, ALL remaining Channels are too faint/noisy to be reliable). Your Router ends up with a list of "available" Channels, which are the ONLY ones it will use until it "syncs" again. Your downstream sync speed is calculated as ChannelBandwidth * NumberOfChannelsAvailable.

      This is why your sync speed varies each time the Router syncs. The maximum reliable Channel frequency depends heavily on the noise conditions on your line AT THE TIME Channel Analysis is done. However, syncing at a higher speed DOESN'T necessarily guarantee increased download speeds!

      EFFECTIVE Bandwidth

      This is the amount of bandwidth ACTUALLY available to YOU, depending on the CURRENT noise conditions on your line!

      Your Sky Router does "noise rejection" by monitoring noise levels on ALL "available" Channels as it uses them. Channels that become TOO noisy to be reliable are temporarily "disabled" until their noise clears. Since each Channel carries a SMALL part of your "available" bandwidth, your true "effective" bandwidth is ChannelBandwidth * NumberOfChannelsEnabled, which can be LESS than the "available" bandwidth and is NOT displayed by the Router!

      This system copes very well with occasional "blips" of noise on an otherwise quiet line. The noise clears very quickly, so effective bandwidth only drops by a barely noticeable amount for a very short period. However, it doesn't cope well with continuous noise across a large number of Channels. Naturally, they STAY disabled until the noise clears, which can reduce effective bandwidth by a significant amount for an extended period! In the most extreme case, when heavy noise is present across ALL Channels, it's entirely possible for effective bandwidth to reduce to ZERO, forcing the Router to lose sync and disconnect!

      Syncing at a higher speed DOESN'T guarantee higher download speeds? OK, high frequency line noise can fade in and out. If the Channel Analysis happens to test the VERY highest frequency Channels JUST when noise fades OUT for a few seconds, MORE Channels than normal will be detected as "good" and maximum Channel frequency will be higher, resulting in a higher sync speed. But, seconds after sync, the noise fades back IN again and TOO much noise is detected on those Channels, so they're disabled, in effect PERMANENTLY. The effective bandwidth is now JUST what the sync speed WOULD have read if the Channel Analysis had been done a few seconds later, so your sync speed is reading artificially high!

      This has happened on my Sky Router before! It once synced at almost 7200 rather than it's usual 5400 or so, but I saw ZERO difference in speed tests!

      So, when your Internet access slows down dramatically and the Router starts disconnecting "seemingly" at random, you can rest assured the most likely cause is TOO much BT Line noise!

      Hope this helps.
      Last edited by h8ball; 14-02-07 at 01:54 AM.

     

     

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