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    Sky LIES

    This is a discussion on Sky LIES within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Ok this is what has happened to me. Got sky in October after promises of speeds of 5.5 (I’m quite ...

    1. #1
      ads2312's Avatar
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      Thumbs down Sky LIES

      Ok this is what has happened to me.
      Got sky in October after promises of speeds of 5.5 (I’m quite far from the exchange). This I thought was great as I was with AOL on 2mb at £27+.

      Didn’t work for over a month. Kept disconnecting etc.
      After 20+ calls, finally talked to someone who understood the problem, T3.
      He suggested capping my line for a month to see what would happen which I agreed to. A week later my telephone line went wrong. BT put in a brand new line to the post outside, and wow what a difference. The line was much more stable and to be quite honest was we didn’t have any problems. No disconnects or re boots.

      The problem now is that I have called Sky (for over a month without reply) to have the cap moved to what my line will take. BT’s line checker says I can get 5mb.
      I talked to customer services then T2 today but they didn’t have a clue what I was going on about but managed to get to talk to a stroppy T3 engineer.
      He said that 2.5 is the best my line will take as I have a lot of low and high end errors. I don’t have a clue what that means, any ideas?

      Now I don’t know what to do. Who is responsible for these errors ? Can BT fix this or is it unfixable? Do I demand a refund from Sky and cancel the whole thing (after all they have miss sold me a package they new I wouldn’t be able to get) , only to have to go through the same things with another provider ????


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    3. #2
      SkyTechSupport's Avatar
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      Re: Sky LIES

      Hey ads2132, you have a few options at this point:

      1) You can try to be put through to Tier 3 again, if they tell you there's errors on the line at speeds higher than 2.5 explain that BT wholesale checker says 5.5 so would logging a fault with BT make any difference. Hopefully they should do some more tests and pass the issue down to Tier 2 to log to BT for further investigation, there may just be a faulty connection in the exchange that needs checked.

      2) You can become the ultimate nerd, type "http://192.168.0.1" into your address bar, username: admin, password: sky, now click on the button at the bottom of Router Status that says "Show Statistics". This will pop up another window with your line stats as your router sees them, one thing the Netgear routers are good for is giving accurate stats, take a note of your "Line Attenuation" and "Noise Margin" values for upstream and downstream, then do one of two things:

      (a) Take those stats onto google.com, check out what speeds other people are getting with similar figures, then go back to Tier 3 with those figures and demand to know what can be done about getting the speed you deserve.

      (b) Plug the router into your test socket (if you have one) this can be done by unscrewing the two screws on the front of your main phone socket and removing the face plate, you'll see another connection that was hidden by the face plate, plug the microfilter with router into that, then recheck your Line Attenuation and Noise Margins, if there's a significant difference - phone BT, your phone socket probably has excess wiring or has been installed wrong, they can maybe send an engineer to check it out, explain the stuff about the test socket and noise margins etc if they try to fob you off, that should get you put on to a team leader lol.

      And as always, please make sure the darn thing is already in the master socket with no extentions before trying any of this!! Any standard RJ11 phone extention will cause the router to lose speed, get that sucker in the main phone socket, most likely the one at the front of your house on ground level, the first one BT will have installed.

      Hope some of this helps chief.
      Is it wrong to work for the devil? Not if you can make a difference... and he pays well.

    4. #3
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      Re: Sky LIES

      That's some strange advice SkyTechSupport

      Taking a few of your points in the order given:

      ads2312 is on Sky Mid which is LLU. The BT wholesale checker has no relevance. Logging a fault with BT is likely to be inappropriate and counter productive.

      This forum must be stuffed with "ultimate nerds" then. Conservatively I'd guess there are 10+ posts a day here that cover stats. Probably 1000+ on the forum. Seems daft to do a a Google search. I daresay the majority of links would be to this site.

      Tier 3 must be pretty fed up of people demanding to know what they are going to do to get higher speeds when most of the time it is down to local (household) wiring issues. If you want a sensible conversation with them it would be far better to have your line errors to hand, particularly a past set and a new set once line noise has been removed as a problem.

      If there's a significance difference between the connection usually used and the test socket then phoning BT should not be the first solution. For a start, if it is the household wiring (it nearly always is) then that is nothing to do with BT. They wouldn't be "fobbing off". It's simply not their responsibility.

      Maybe you're also getting confused with your cables? An RJ11 is a cable used to connect a modem/router to a phone socket. "Any standard RJ11 phone extention" makes no sense. In any event, a long RJ11 is not all that problematical and is to be much preferred to a standard telephone extension (twisted pair), hardwired or not.

      I am not posting the above to have a go at you - rather, I'd like to suggest you spend a little time reading up on household telephony and ADSL. This forum would be a good starting point or I'd be happy to point you at other sources.

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      Re: Sky LIES

      Just speaking from experience of what's solved other people's problems really, scratch the RJ11 bit don't know why I said that, just replace with any phone extention, I've seen speeds from secondary sockets to main sockets jump a couple of meg, it can be a big difference, and after speaking to a friend just there I think you're right, BT won't change the house wiring, but there are a lot of good tutorials on the net and I'm sure on this site too for removing some of the unneccessary wiring inside the master socket to increase the speed, it'll still need to be taken to Tier 3 for the speed to be recapped, I'm just used to being quite demanding when it comes to Tier 3...

      As for fault logging, with a difference from the wholesale check of 5.5 to 2.5 stable speed I don't think it's that pointless to get BT to check out his connections in the exchange, it was just a suggestion as I've seen T3 sending cases down to T2 for fault logging when they run out of ideas as to why the stable speed is much lower than what the line should handle. And I understand he's on LLU and wholesale checker doesn't matter, but I can guarantee if he phones T1 and asks them to check his "DSL availability check" which does contain the LLU max speed he can handle, it'll still be a lot higher than 2.5, if not it may be time to consider switching him from the DSLAM equiptment to standard ADSL as that can sometimes fix the speed issues, this will also need to be performed by T3.

      In any case I'd personally try the latter bits before pulling out wires from my phone socket, it's always nice to give the safe options first, and because Sky won't ever give support for pulling bits out of a phone socket it may just be worth seeing what the procedural methods in the latter part can do.
      Is it wrong to work for the devil? Not if you can make a difference... and he pays well.

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      Re: Sky LIES

      Thanks for the advice guys.

      I’ve already tried the test socket and it makes no difference. My Line Attenuation and Noise Margins are fine. The line is working great but at only 2.5. I’ve already done most of the tests and advice on here.
      Can someone explain what low and high end’s means ? Is this noise or something else. What the T3 man said was there is a lot of high and low but not enough to cause a problem with the line capped at 2.5! If he increased it it would affect the line and make it unstable again. By the way I’m on max package but am going to change to mid if they can’t give me what I’m paying for. Did think about going down to the free one but need the higher downloading facility.

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      Re: Sky LIES

      @ads2312

      I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "Sky lies".

      From your post it seems like your line was generating a lot of errors and Sky capped you to reduce the impact of these. Unfortunately Sky do this because it is easy and works but it is treating the symptoms of the problem not the cause.

      The cause is line noise and from your description it is possible that much or all of this was being generated outside of your control i.e. somewhere on the line between your house and the exchange. BT have done their thing which has resulted in a big speed boost. That doesn't mean however that your line noise problems are gone.

      You haven't posted your attenuation or your current speed so it is impossible to say whether you are getting the speed you potentially should.

      To be honest it's an unusual house where the internal wiring is not having an impact on the router connection speed. Top test this you need to connect your router to the test socket which you will find behind the faceplate of your master socket (assuming you have an NTE5). The changes you are looking for are to your noise margin as you are capped. If you see a leap then you need to improve your wiring if you want to get a speed/stability benefit. If you want further advice see the cabling and faceplate help forum.

      The "stroppy T3 engineer" told you your line has a lot of errors. That's almost certainly not Sky's responsibility or BT's but yours. If you fix the problem then Sky should be able to see the improvement and be prepared, if asked, to remove any cap.

      As I have suggested to skyTechSupport, there is a wealth of information on this forum - frankly, far more than known by the average Sky T1 or T2 support person. Take some time to read a few of the posts, particularly the stickies. You may find the first one linked at the bottom of this post a good starting point.

      In any event, for future reference, it will be much easier to help you if you post your actual stats to illustrate your problem not just say "My Line Attenuation and Noise Margins are fine".

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      Re: Sky LIES

      Quote Originally Posted by ads2312 View Post
      Thanks for the advice guys.

      Iíve already tried the test socket and it makes no difference. My Line Attenuation and Noise Margins are fine. The line is working great but at only 2.5. Iíve already done most of the tests and advice on here.
      Can someone explain what low and high endís means ? Is this noise or something else. What the T3 man said was there is a lot of high and low but not enough to cause a problem with the line capped at 2.5! If he increased it it would affect the line and make it unstable again. By the way Iím on max package but am going to change to mid if they canít give me what Iím paying for. Did think about going down to the free one but need the higher downloading facility.
      S'all good chief, I actually haven't a clue what high and low errors could be, the only guess I could make would be errors in the high and low frequencies of the signal, what difference that makes I'll not even try to guess, it's like watching E.R. you just assume when they say "Give me 10ccs of hydromax...senaline...marsbar... STAT" they're not just making it up.

      I think me and Saturday you can consider to be the two sides of the coin you can flip, his suggestions are awesome but all DIY, if it can be done by yourself why not do it yourself I ask yah? I however am lazy and nervous when it comes to the physical side of things, my position would be keep phoning every department until someone gets annoyed enough to send someone to do something, as long as it's free why not I ask yah?

      I think your best option though to be honest is to get through to Tier 3 and discuss the possibility of moving you from the LLU equiptment to the standard BT equiptment in the exchange, then if wholesale says you can get 5.5 you should get around that on the ADSL Max service you'll have switched to.

      I had a friend who got a massive speed boost after complaining to BT so much they sent an engineer out who discovered the wiring in his green box thing at the end of his street was made out of shoelaces, replacing that really made a difference.

      If all else fails just tell BT your phone socket is talking to you, and when they send out the engineer / paranormal investigator just be like,
      "While you're here, want to rip some wires out of this sonbetch?"
      Works every time...
      Is it wrong to work for the devil? Not if you can make a difference... and he pays well.

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      Re: Sky LIES

      It is very unlikely Sky will move you from LLU back to BT eqipment because BT charge Sky for the use of the equipment in cases where LLU is unavailable, the costs of which Sky pass on to the customer in the form of the "Connect" package at £17.99 a month. You just need to read this forum and try to get to the route of the problem by trial and errer.

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      Re: Sky LIES

      ok this are my stats

      Connection Speed 2528 kbps 288 kbps
      Line Attenuation 43.0 db 26.5 db
      Noise Margin 16.6 db 14.0 db

      before capping I was getting noise of 5-7. Not sure what distance from exchange but BT test said I could get 5.5 and sky said similar before I signed up!.
      Don't get me wrong I'm sort of happy with the line speed and connection never fails but am just *****ed that Sky's customer service and tech help is so bad and that they won't even give upping the cap a try.

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      Re: Sky LIES

      What I find wrong with posts like this is that writers want to spend so long arguing, phoning, ringing up pence and minutes and point scoring. Many have some technical competence and a phone line consisting of two wires, a basis of the simplest circuit.
      Putting the demarcation of where BT ends and the consumer begins aside, the starting point is those two wires. In a proper install today, I understand, the test socket is the end of these two wires and that is where sky ask you to place the router to check - I know this because I have read it on the posts here.
      Where I read that even this is presenting a problem leads me to conclude that may be the extensions and various hangers-on have been self installed perhaps by previous owners and tenants who have not put all the extensions on the faceplate connecting block (ie NOT the screw connections because they did not have the 60p tool) but have wrongly put them in the screw connections behind the test socket. If someone wants to diagrammatically interpret this please do.
      For older installs the BT wiring may end in a small terminal block - and that is where the router needs to be hooked into to test - temporarily without any other connecting wires.
      People are happy to invest big money in a computer, router etc and sign up for sky and pay probably £50+ a month. If you search out good prices you could completely rewire your house with new phone wire and sockets for half of that. Even network sockets and premade cables can be obtained from the poundshops (poundworld do network socket frontplates for £1 - poundland are a good source of phone bits and pieces including modem sockets and wire - I've bought 25m for £1 in the past) If you want cat5e or cat6 cable you need to go to specialists such as "Screwfix", owned by Block and Quail, sell 15metres of cat5e for £15.96+postage, or electronics shops about 60p a metre.
      The lesson is and I have "read" it so many times here - invest in getting your own house in order and back to basics before being dogmatic about others faults.
      Last edited by beethoven; 07-02-07 at 10:08 PM. Reason: added a word to make a sentence make sense!!

     

     
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