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    Noise margin discussion

    This is a discussion on Noise margin discussion within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Originally Posted by NewsreadeR LOL I am struggling to find where we were talking about line attenuation, its just that ...

    1. #1
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      Re: How long

      Quote Originally Posted by NewsreadeR View Post
      LOL I am struggling to find where we were talking about line attenuation, its just that your post popped up and I thought ???????

      EDIT: on page 1
      lollll the 42db and 30db and all that is all to do with line attenuation ie the condition of your line which you can obtain that kind of information of BT. Its ok don't worry bout it i don't think that guy is with sky broadband lol


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      Re: How long

      Quote Originally Posted by snake View Post
      if 42db is your line attenuation mate that is above the recommended amount as the maximum should only be 30db. Sky may beable to scratch you in for adsl2+ but if they say to many data corruptions going down your line due to line attenuation being to high they may want to change your profile as this will cause you alot of drop out problems. Usually on a 42db this may increase if they try to increase your speed. I have seen line attenuation over 60db and this has really caused some serious problems. Best thing for ya to do mate is check your line attenuation through the "statistics" in the router settings page and if that gets higher and you know ur set to adsl2+ then you will have to get Tier 3 tech support to change your profile for ya.
      I just have no idea what you are going on about

      Why is 42db "above the recommended amount"? And "the maximum should only be 30db".

      Attenuation will increase when measured by the same router if synced at ADSL2+ rather than say ADSL1. But not by all that much.

      ADSL2+ will happily accept an attenuation of up to ~80db provided the noise levels are low (i.e. appropriate for the attenuation), though the speed will be <1000kbps. That's also true of ADSL1. I can entirely see why an ISP might wish to set a lower limit than that (say 65db/2meg) to avoid customer dissatisfaction but 30db! Just as a point of interest I have an attenuation of 38.5db and sync stable at ~12500kbps.

      What matters is attenuation and line noise. To suggest that someone should get their connection capped just because they have a high attenuation (without considering their noise levels/margin) is in my opinion plain daft.

      Capping a poorly performing connection makes sense if the root cause of the problem is not fixable otherwise capping is a lazy, brutal thing to do which relies on customer's ignorance to not know any better when this is done to them. Sky seem too keen to use this as an option of first resort not last as it should be.

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      Re: How long

      yes noise margins are taking into consideration but you also gotta realise that line attenuation is alot more important cause it gives u the results on the state of your line. If your sayin someone can go on adsl2+ with a line attenuation of 80 then you are very much mistaken because that customer will get severe drop out connections and will be lucky to hold there connection for more than 20 seconds. You must remember that BT phone lines are in terrible condition cause they are so old and have not really been renewed. Anything above line attenuation 30db can cause corrupt data errors but yes usually 38 isn't so bad because it won't cause alot of errors but it will still give a few. If your hitting into line attenuation of above 50 even hittin 60 then you will have problems cause the errors will increase and it makes it even more worse if the customer is using extension cables or in a slave socket and not there master. Phone your isp ask them to check your exchange and i will put money on it that you will have a few data errors on your line not many but you will still have them. Below 30db there won't be any data errors.
      Last edited by Saturday; 24-01-07 at 12:50 AM. Reason: Removed full quote of preceeding post

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      Re: How long

      he said upto 80dB but didnt say stable, Im pretty sure in the labs they get this higher than 80dB but as said to avoid dissat SPs cap

      saying that provide source data to me that 30dB is the optimum level for +2 and I will approve your posts

      I sure I will get more than the 6Mbit + when I move over but lets just wait and see
      Last edited by Saturday; 24-01-07 at 12:50 AM. Reason: Removed full quote of preceeding post

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      Re: How long

      To be honest with ya i have NEVER seen anyone remotly close to 80db line attenuation and if i did i would recommend they go dial up because they have no chance with broadband. ADSL2+ is the fastest profile set from the exchange broadband over here have to offer there is no higher line attenuation HAS to be half decent to even remotly get up to 16Mbps download and if it is sitting at any higher than 50 then you may need to be put to ADSL. But i think we should all just agree to disagree even though i have been doing all this since sky broadband started up and have dealt with many cases with high line attenuation
      Last edited by Saturday; 24-01-07 at 12:50 AM. Reason: Removed full quote of preceeding post

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      Re: How long

      Yes we can agree to disagree.

      However, if you post something which I believe to be incorrect and are unable to offer any objective evidence for your view, then you'll have to expect me to challenge you.

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      Re: How long

      I have proof all you need to do is ring sky tech support be put through to Tier 2 and i will gladly transfer you to Tier 3 and u can debate this issue with them but i can guarantee you they will tell you exactly the same thing as me. If line attenuation is to high drop outs will happen despite noise margin. You know wat a cap and res test is? Do you know what is done in a co-op? do you know what the bar pair is? do you know what tie pairs are? simple thing is your debating with someone that deals with this kinda thing in his everyday life and i think fighting a loosing battle. No offence intended
      Last edited by NewsreadeR; 24-01-07 at 01:17 AM. Reason: Removed full quote of preceeding post

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      Re: Noise margin discussion

      split thread as gone way off original topic




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      Re: How long

      Quote Originally Posted by snake View Post
      To be honest with ya i have NEVER seen anyone remotly close to 80db line attenuation and if i did i would recommend they go dial up because they have no chance with broadband. ADSL2+ is the fastest profile set from the exchange broadband over here have to offer there is no higher line attenuation HAS to be half decent to even remotly get up to 16Mbps download and if it is sitting at any higher than 50 then you may need to be put to ADSL. But i think we should all just agree to disagree even though i have been doing all this since sky broadband started up and have dealt with many cases with high line attenuation
      and im an BTw engineer

     

     

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