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    New to sky - you may want to read this....

    This is a discussion on New to sky - you may want to read this.... within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Hi to all, my first post, which has been prompted from weekly lurking/ digesting etc. This thread could possibly go ...

    1. #1
      Hughjarse's Avatar
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      New to sky - you may want to read this....

      Hi to all, my first post, which has been prompted from weekly lurking/ digesting etc. This thread could possibly go in any forum as it covers many isues, but ill try and keep it succinct. Its all thanks to this forum.
      My tale..................

      Ordrerd sky max on 15th dec. Was with Nildram on max package and decided to leave due to traffic throttling. Statds were Attenuation 39. SNR 14.4 synced at 6300.

      BT checker said i ciukd max get 512 !! (obviously wrong ) sky and i chose to ignore this.
      2 letters and router arrive within week activation 28th dec.
      the day arrived and please note i had my original belkin router plugged in while activated.
      Realised it was on and swapped router over. Checked stas and connected at 8096.........Id previoulsy read current thread and thought hold on, thats capped. Yup looked at cfg file and dmt.
      So promplty rang sky - lovely lady - didnt hav e the foggiest what I was on about but agreed about cap and woul email tier 3.
      I also emailed - I got a reply it was this.....


      Dear Hugh

      Thank you for your email regarding ADSL and ADSL2+. I am sorry you are experiencing this issue.

      I have checked your account and also checked the situation at your exchange, there is not a suitable ADSL2+ connection for you at the exchange, neither the quality nor the capacity is available and the line speed is undetermined. Therefore until such time as the exchange upgrades the services offered, you are on the most appropriate connection to give you the most stable connection at present.

      Should you need any further support please do not hesitate to contact us again via email, or alternatively, our Technical Support Lines are open twenty-four hours a day. You can call us on 08705 515 515, option 1, then option 3, and our Customer Advisors can help you over the phone. (It is recommended you call from your broadband line, in case any line tests are required).



      WHAT!!! I have been sold a donkey thinks me.........

      So I rang last night, after a little arguing with John , who I assume was in Kuhal Lumpa He put me thru to Geoffry in Tier 3. Now geoffrey was obvioulsy a snotty nosed graduate who thought he ws going to bamboozle me.
      I explained the siuation and he said that I had beencapped as there were errors on my line - how do you know that I said, its been capped from the start. No it hasnt siad he, yes it has says me - this bantereing went on for a few minutes.
      If I put you on 16mb it will fall over immedialty says he, no it wont says me, yes it will says he ( at this point my wife is p****** herself in the background)
      Try it says me, no says he it will fall over, then I dont have adsl2 do i ....NO says he.
      Try me says me ( can you imagine this conversaion in your head )
      Oh did I say I am an ICT Manager who runs a team of techies and deals commecially with easynet everyday!)

      Ok says he, and like a little schoolboy he preceded to oooh and ahhh as errors apparently appeared on my line - there you are says he, thouasnads of them.

      The upshot of this is I am currently synced at
      Connection Speed 11136 kbps 764 kbps
      Line Attenuation 42.0 db 24.3 db
      Noise Margin 7.0 db 12.5 db

      Not wonderful, but so far EXTREMELY stable - NOT ONE dropout, and I have downlaoed about 20gig in small files overnight.

      So we shall see - if it does become unstable Ill let you all know ( And sky )
      and will have to go back onto a 8mb package.

      So to let you all know - its worth the argument!!! - well so far.
      Last edited by Saturday; 29-12-06 at 12:47 PM. Reason: Removed extra line breaks


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    3. #2
      Saturday's Avatar
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      Welcome to the forum.

      It's a shame that Sky have a different excuse for their actions depending on who you talk to, but as you seem to have demonstrated, polite insistence is the best course of action.

      You appear to be pretty well clued up but I'll just remind you anyway that your router will report line errors (or at least a subset of them) in an extracted file. If they do seem a bit high then you may find that setting your noise margin a little higher at the expense of a bit of speed will bring them down. You might also wish to compare the error level and any connection stats change between whatever socket you currently use and the test socket inside your master socket (assuming you have an NTE5).

    4. #3
      Hughjarse's Avatar
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      Hi saturday , thanks for the reply, Im only clued up by reading on here - techies at work do all the clever bit, i just manage them and argue on their behalves. Im a teacher by trait.

      I have an NTE5 plate on order as we speak from clarity - its the one that allows me to hard wire in.

      I know how to extract the cfg file etc not too sure on the errors though - what would you suggest is acceptable and unacceptable, and can I up the snr on the sky router or do sky have to? ( I have a belkin that i am telnetting to as we speak, i can control snr and sa on this. if i drop my snr to 1.3 i can connect at over 13000 - just playing though)

      TBH its working very well - not dropped out yet whatsoever, average overnight speed download was 1080kbs .

      WHy do I strive for more speed? One of lifes little mysterious aint it!!!

    5. #4
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      I couldn't tell you what an acceptable level of errors is as it will depend on individual circumstances - obviously none is best

      Extract the file following a normal surfing/downloading session. If you look through the file you extracted you will see a number of sections titled "total time", "latest 1 day" etc. Look at the last 3 sections called "15 minutes interval" which will tell you what's happened over the previous hour.

      Ignore SF, you're most interested in CRC, LOS and LOF.

      CRC is cyclic redundancy check which is uncorrected errors that will have had to be retransmitted. On Fastpath you may have anything up to the low 000s without obvious problems but the lower the better. On Interleave you shouldn't see more than a handful.

      LOS is loss of signal which should be zero.

      LOF is loss of frame which providing your other errors aren't too bad should also be zero.

      Don't get too worried by errors. A few is not necessarily bad. A lot and you'll probably already notice problems. If you really want the most speed then you'll need to experiment and find what level of error gives an otherwise good connection at a high speed.

      HTH
      Last edited by Saturday; 30-12-06 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Added info

    6. #5
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      I have not posted in a while but what you have wrote really rattled my cage, you argued with him while telling him your line will take higher without actualy seeing any of the stats that are available and considering you are now only connected at a few mb higher. you probably do have alot of errors on your line building up.

      Such assumptions as a grad student who thought he would bamboozle you? to be honest its actualy good to get someone on the phone that knows semi what they are talking about. especialy when they think they know better than us and proceed to tell us how to do our job without seeing any of the details we have and only knowing certain aspects from a forum.

      im glad you know have a higher speed, just hope we dont see you post within the next week along the likes of my connection is intermitant have to get capped again.

      Errors take time to build to a point where it will affect your line hence why I would suggest you keep an eye on it. lets hope the snotty grad student wasnt right
      Last edited by The Doctor; 30-12-06 at 04:43 AM.

    7. #6
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      Guinness, I take on board your points, granted most of them justified, however, through out the organisation there is a distinct "Computer sez no" syndrome.

      I have made this point before; there are many, many switched-on, clued up & very helpful people at BSkyB, however, there are also a large number who appear not to give a toss, this may not be strictly true but that's the perception that's given.

      Like any large organisation it's luck of the draw who you end up speaking to, clearly, Hugh's frustration has painted a mental picture of a Post Grad Student, an assumption that might well be incorrect.

      Consider this; wouldn't it be refreshing for the agent to have explained the possibilities of the actions to be taken then said, "Lets try it Hugh, Lets see how you get on, if repeated problems occur, call us back under this ticket number and we will revert back to the original settings".

      A positive approach to any situation like this suppresses the need for a pantomime type conversation. Often decisions & actions of people need to be challenged, and that includes me too.

      I can see that you feel strongly, and understand that the customer is certainly not always right, but it's important to learn by example. It will be interesting to see how Hugh gets on, if it falls on it's a*s* then fine.
      Last edited by Cyrus; 30-12-06 at 08:23 AM.
      "If you are planning for a year, sow rice;
      if you are planning for a decade, plant trees;
      if you are planning for a lifetime, educate people."

    8. #7
      Hughjarse's Avatar
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      Ok lets get something clear...
      He was snotty !
      Im guesing that if hes working at that level he is some type of graduate - maybe Im wrong to assume that, maybe he is unqualified and fresh out of school.
      My line had been capped before it had been tested - he admitted this, apparently its automatic. I was not receiving what I had signed / paid for.
      The Email I received from HIS department was clearly incorrect .
      As I said BT stats about my line are wrong - Sky knew this and capped me even before they tried.
      I WAS RIGHT TO CHALLENGE .
      "considering you are now only connected at a few mb higher"
      I am now approx 4mb faster than I was getting. Equate that to anything you like from cc on a car to a person who goes from 512 to a 4.5mb connection.


      MY initial issue was that when I signed up, sky could not tell me how fast I would get due to incorrect stats - Youre now telling me that I should trust his stats.

      Well, whether I will suddenly have problems or not because I challenged Im typing on a 12mb connection not 8mb. I have an attenuation of 38 and an snr of 10. ( Just checked )

      So to finish Im glad I challenged the snotty nosed graduate (IMHO of course ) who basically didn't care and or want to try to help. I dont see this as a cheap broadband option - I pay sky nearly 800 a year for my televsion and broadband, I dont pay anywhere near that to service my car, thus I expect good prompt, courteous staff - this is not just the front of house staff who i find are very helpful, but all staff even those that think and probably do know more than their patrons.

      I stayed at a hotel recently that was fantastic - the reason was that it was an American hotel, full of American tourists. They winge and moan about everything. Im not saying that people winging and moaning is nice but because of this the hotel was fabulous!
      I believe if more people challenged the service would get better.

      As Cyrus quite rightly stated, if the representative had had a better attitude towards me, the pantomime conversation would not have taken place.

      Something along the lines of, yes I understand what your saying sir, I think you may have problems, but lets give it ago and see what happens.

      I will post back and let people know whether my line falls over - it hasnt so far, in fact its more stable than my other easynet line and thats a 100mb fibre.

    9. #8
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      I was not saying to trust the stats on the speed your line could take, he was logged into your exchange and looking at your line stats if he said it would fall over if he put it on 16mb then he is more than likely correct.

      Snr and attenuation are only a small part of a much bigger equation as to if your line is stable, we cant uncap a line and leave it even if it has a small amount of errors on it as this could lead to issues ahead of time. there are service agreements that need met and he probably broke a few leaving at your current speed.

      I understand where your coming from and if he had a snotty attidude as you say he did then shame on him, but I dont think telling him hes wrong your right and then telling him about your job did anything to help his attidude towards you, but were not here to debate that. my point was that your line more than likely does have errors and those may cause an issue in a few days time. I hope it doesnt but im sure you can understand if were fixin lines day in day out and then have to listen to someone tell you how to do your job would you be so willing to help.

      of course all this is my opinion. but being one of the snot nosed grad students fixing lines im sure you can see our side

    10. #9
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      Ok I can see your point - I didnt tell him my job that was just a bit of info i posted here, and unlike him you are being very courteous and knowledgable without being rude - even if you do have a snotty nose

      Ive been on three days now 24/7 downloaded a fair bit - test purposes and im still stable.

      Could someone tell me does adsl not sync at its most comfortable speed?
      Therefore why sign someone up for the max package and cap it on the package below.

      If I am wrong I will be the first to ring up Sky and apologise - I will also post on here. However at the moment although slightly smug, I was correct to argue.

    11. #10
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      So all's well that ends well then.
      "If you are planning for a year, sow rice;
      if you are planning for a decade, plant trees;
      if you are planning for a lifetime, educate people."

     

     

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