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    Connection Problem - Please Help

    This is a discussion on Connection Problem - Please Help within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; You're not turning the router off at night are you? The rebooting method only works if you leave the router ...

    1. #11
      Saturday's Avatar
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      You're not turning the router off at night are you?

      The rebooting method only works if you leave the router powered up and connected to the phone socket 24/7.

      If you are leaving the router powered up and the margin is still dropping from 7db to 4db again and again then the total amount of noise margin drop must be quite extraordinary and this would suggest an extremely unusual and severe fault on your line. Even then I can't understand why it wouldn't bottom out. If you're not turning the router off then maybe it has a PSU problem or faulty RJ11 cable? Your router logs should show this e.g. the entries would only start since the last power up or RJ11 disconnection. Do you have another RJ11 (the cable that connects the router to the phone socket) you could try?

      If you're really struggling with the reboot method consider using Mognut's utility to directly change the noise margin. You'll find details in a sticky in the Tech forum. I should say though that whilst the use of this utility should be completely safe and reversible, you use it at your own risk.
      Last edited by Saturday; 29-12-06 at 10:39 AM.


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    3. #12
      pete146's Avatar
      pete146 is offline Sky User Member
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      Thanks

      I'm not turning the router off at all, just rebooting when the noise margin drops below 6.5db.

      I've tried mognut's utility & set the target noise margin to 10db - this has kept the noise margin above 6.5 for the past 9 hours. However every now and again web pages start loading very slowly (if at all) even though the noise margin has stayed over 6.5db.

      Do I need to change any of the other settings in the utility? These were my stats the last time web pages wouldn't load:

      System Up Time 09:48:56
      Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
      WAN PPPoA 340 265 0 43 71 00:13:37
      LAN 10M/100M 1488375 1775566 0 28206 33695 09:48:54
      WLAN 11M/54M 0 0 0 0 0 00:00:00


      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 2848 kbps 768 kbps
      Line Attenuation 60.0 db 31.5 db
      Noise Margin 7.5 db 9.0 db

      I'll try another RJ11 tomorrow. I've selected 'logs' on the router settings page and there are only entries since 20:19 this evening but the router was last rebooted at around 2pm. Don't know if this means anything?

      Thanks

    4. #13
      Saturday's Avatar
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      Your stats look fine.

      I think your router logs are pointing the way - if you last rebooted at 2pm then you should have an entry to that effect. If the first entry is much later then that suggests to me that you are losing your connection. A faulty RJ11 is my best guess. Failing that a faulty socket on your router or phone socket.

      Sounds daft but if a new RJ11 doesn't fix things try rubber banding the cable to the router so that it is held firm and can't move. If not that then try the same with the phone socket.

    5. #14
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      The start of your router log should look something like this:-

      Sat, 2000-01-01 00:00:20 - Initialize LCP.
      Sat, 2000-01-01 00:00:20 - LCP is allowed to come up.
      Sat, 2000-01-01 00:01:20 - Initialize LCP.
      Sat, 2000-01-01 00:01:20 - LCP is allowed to come up.
      Sat, 2000-01-01 00:01:20 - CHAP authentication success
      Sat, 2000-01-01 00:01:23 - Send out NTP request to time-g.netgear.com
      Sun, 2006-12-24 21:11:00 - Receive NTP Reply from time-g.netgear.com

      Assuming that you haven't rebooted since 2pm yesterday the last line above in your log should be something like:
      Friday, 2006-12-29 14.xx.xx - etc

      and then there should be a complete record to the present.

      If like me you view at 800x600 you will have to scroll the log window to the right to find a vertical scroll bar to get to the top of the log entries.

      If it does indeed start at 2019 it looks like your router has rebooted by itself and may be faulty or have a faulty power supply or connection.
      If you had a poor connection on the incoming line the log should still continue back to the time of rebooting.

      I have to disagree with Saturday over your stats.
      A line attenuation of 60dB (assuming nothing else is causing it to be that high --have you checked for any dodgy looking joints or damaged cables along your phone line?) is near the limits of the technology especially as you are on Max.
      Although your noise margin is about 7dB there are wide variations in the sync speed you report which suggests to me that you have a wide range of noise/interference levels in your area.As you are discovering it doesn't take much of a change to affect your broadband.
      I noticed that I dropped out about 0820 each morning.Monitoring the noise margin I could see it drop down and I would lose connection.In 20 or 30 sec it would rise again and I could reconnect.

      I am loathe to suggest it but if you have investigated all other possibilities I would get Sky to cap your line at a lower speed to give a greater noise margin and more stability.

      Andy

    6. #15
      Saturday's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by AndyJG View Post
      I have to disagree with Saturday over your stats.
      I said they look fine (i.e. a connection speed that is in line with the attenuation and an adequate noise margin) - I didn't say they were good

    7. #16
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      not wishing to question a moderator at all but.....
      i was under the impression that a line attenuation of 60 was awful?

      my line attenuation is 50 which I have been told by several people is too high and suggests a poor quality line or a large distance from the exchange?

      also noise margin is better in double figures is it not? capping the speed at 2.5meg should lift the noise to about 9-10?

    8. #17
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      Line attenuation just dictates how far you are effectievly from the exchaneg which in turn dictates how fast you could possibly sync at.

      As long as the speed you are getting is appropriate for your attenuation, then everything is fine and therefore you have no problems. The only way you could improve attenuation is to ask BT to dig up the road and reroute your telephone cable.

      Noise margin, the higher the better. A NM of 7db is sufficient to provide a stable service anything more is just a safeguard against any fluctuations that happen (ie if NM fluctuates by 1db and you currently have 7db, then you may notice some instability as it drops to 6db. If your NM is at 10db, then it would take a fluctuation of 4db to have an impact on your stability).

    9. #18
      Saturday's Avatar
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      @bwfcboy

      Question away. I'm just a mod - doesn't mean I know everything

      Attenuation (as measured by the router) is largely a measure of the line length. Whilst a poor quality line may add to this figure it would be marginal - if the line were that poor quality it added significantly to the attenuation it would probably not take an ADSL signal at all.

      There is nothing "wrong" with an attenuation of 60db, neither is it "too high". It just means it is long. Whilst we'd all like a shorter line (and hence higher speeds) I think what matters is that everyone is able to get the most from their particular line characteristics. That means that if a router is connecting at the appropriate speed for a given attenuation then the line is fine - it's performing at its potential.

      Whilst as large as possible noise margin is a good thing, unless you have a particularly short line then a higher than necessary noise margin means that potential connection speed is reduced. The Sky router performs perfectly well at a noise margin of 6.2db or above. It syncs by default to 6.9db. There is no need to raise the noise margin significantly above this to cap a line if the line is relatively noise free (i.e. the connection speed is in line with the attenuation) unless in the course of a day the normal noise margin cycle drops below ~6.5db. In that case a noise margin that is sufficient to keep it above 6.5db is desirable.

      Your attenuation at 50db isn't so bad as that. With a relatively noise free line you should be able to connect at ~6000kbps - a speed that only a couple of years ago would seem incredible. In fact I'd have thought a 6meg connection is at least average these days, possibly better than average.
      Last edited by Saturday; 01-01-07 at 09:38 PM.

    10. #19
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      OK, I swapped the RJ11 - no difference.
      I tried the elastic bands - no difference.
      So I finally decided to contact sky again & I'm waiting for a call back from tier 2 technical support. I'll let you know what happens!

      Thanks for all your help so far guys!

    11. #20
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      Just out of interest, I've just checked my router stats & the line attenuation has come all the way down to 15.5db (I know the noise margin is crap but I'm still connected) - is there any reason for this?


      System Up Time 21:57:00
      Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
      WAN PPPoA 40066 58437 0 595 9359 02:06:59
      LAN 10M/100M 61845 48910 0 931 80 21:56:58
      WLAN 11M/54M 0 0 0 0 0 00:00:00


      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 3776 kbps 768 kbps
      Line Attenuation 15.5 db 31.5 db
      Noise Margin 4.1 db 13.0 db



      Also the date in the logs is now completely wrong, it thinks that it is Sat 1st January 2000. I guess that this has haapened since the start of the new year, but is there any way that I can correct it?

      Thanks

     

     
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