Your forum username:
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up


    Welcome to Sky User - The Unofficial Support Forum for everything Sky! - Proudly helping over 65k members.


    Advertisement

    Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
    Results 1 to 10 of 60
    Like Tree10Likes

    D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

    This is a discussion on D/S link dropping but U/S staying up within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Like a lot of other people I am an ex-O2 customer who sold their soul to Sky for free TV ...

    1. #1
      DavidJFirman's Avatar
      DavidJFirman is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: 01923
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited & talk
      Router: SR101
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Location
      Watford
      Posts
      37
      Thanks
      3
      Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

      D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Like a lot of other people I am an ex-O2 customer who sold their soul to Sky for free TV for a year! With O2 my connection was rock solid at about 6M d/s and 600k u/s. However since the move to Sky I have intermittent connection problems.

      Over the past 4 weeks my connection has been up and down like a yo-yo, however from RouterStats-Lite I can see that is is only the downstream link which drops out - and occurs up to 60+ times per day.

      The router still displays a happy smiling white face during the loss of d/s link but, and this is the interesting (to my mind) bit, I can't access it via 192.168.0.1 and pinging it will result in the "destination host unreachable" error.

      So far:

      The Sky hub has been changed from a 101 to a 102 (I think those are the right models, it was white and now it's black).

      I have had a BTO voice engineer out, who found no fault but changed the master socket.

      I have had a BTO ADSL engineer out who found that the connection (crimp) of my circuit (and that of c. 100 of my neighbours) was immersed in water (he drained / dried it) and he also changed the faceplate to a VDSL one.

      and yet the fault remains.....

      Over the past 4 days (after the BTO engineer visited) Sky have been playing around with the line and my stats (according to RouterStats-Lite) are as follows:

      Day D/S U/S ping Noise Margin Disconnections (D/S)
      Wed 7692 797 48ms 6.6dB 60+
      Thu 7840 1085 30ms 6.4dB 18
      Fri 7878 1165 18ms 6.1dB 51
      Sat 8938 1248 13ms 3.1dB 52

      Prior to the engineer visit I was seeing about 7489 / 797 with a ping of 50ms and a noise margin of c 7.0dB

      (D/S attenuation is c. 43.5dB and has not changed)

      My limited knowledge of ADSL suggests to me that it is some form of line noise / interference affecting the higher (d/s) frequencies - but I'm open to your more learned and experienced minds offering an alternative.

      If we compare / contrast the situation to when I was with O2 then we get the following:

      Exchange-----------DSLAM---------last mile---------master socket------router

      The DSLAM and last mile are presumably the same, as was the master socket (until changed). Therefore the only difference in kit is the stuff in the exchange and the router. The router has been changed, as has the PSU and cable to the master socket and I have not moved around any other components of my home LAN. The ONLY thing that is different is the Sky kit in the exchange - could this be causing the problem? Logic states that it is (to my mind, but I'll happily bow to your superior knowledge!).

      So... is it worthwhile speaking to Sky and getting them to fix my line at 6.4dB - I'll happily sacrifice a meg in speed for a stable connection!

      Ladies and Gentlemen, I look forward to your comments, suggestions and questions... Logs, graphs etc are all available if you would like them.

      Thanks, in advance, for your help.....


    2. Advertisement
    3. #2
      Scubbie's Avatar
      Scubbie is offline Sky User Moderator
      Exchange: 02392
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sky Q Hub ER110
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Mar 2010
      Location
      Near Portsmouth
      Posts
      27,907
      Thanks
      812
      Thanked 2,195 Times in 2,065 Posts

      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Welcome to the forum DavidJFirman,

      Sky isn't as bad as you are making them out to be. I know it is a little hotter than that other place but you do get used to it.

      Getting back to the issue...

      From what you are saying , that BTO Engineer has found quite an important issue. Why was that joint in a flooded area? How did it flood? Has it flooded again?

      Whilst Gel crimps are great at protecting the copper from the elements, I wonder how well the cable would last if it is submerged for an extended period.

      These are my first thoughts.

      If the cable has deteriorated then based on what has been posted by other members in the past, it is unlikely that BTO will replace the underground cable. I think that you will need to chat with your neighbours and see if anyone else has the same issue. If there are enough of you, then look at contacting al your ISPs en-mass as see if this can get the trunk cable replaced.

      With potentially 100 people affected, the work isn't going to be quick and simple. It may also be difficult to get it all organised. You may need to chat with a local counsellor or even your MP.

      Before leapong into action though, I would suggest a friendly call to Sky once more. Get the Engineer out and find out if the problem has escalated in his/her opinion. It could be a new problem or it might be something which is easily resolved.

      If it does get to the stage where the underground cable needs to be replaced, this is when you need to start chatting more with your neighbours. If BTO won't change it for you, they might well have to change it is 100+ customers are calling them up every week or if the local council start calling them, they might start to get the hint.

      It sounds like this was a problem that was brewing. Whether you had stayed with O2, switched to Sky or gone to any other ISP, this is something which would of happened anyway.
      DavidJFirman likes this.

      Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro: Connected at 80,000 kbps / 20,000 kbps
      Previous ADSL2+ Speed 19999 kbps 1153 kbps, Line Attenuation 17.5 db 6.9 db, Noise Margin 7.5 dB 8.7 dB
      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

    4. The Following User Says Thank You to Scubbie For This Useful Post:

      DavidJFirman (06-04-14)

    5. #3
      DavidJFirman's Avatar
      DavidJFirman is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: 01923
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited & talk
      Router: SR101
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Location
      Watford
      Posts
      37
      Thanks
      3
      Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Hi Scubbie and thank you for the welcome and the reply.

      I really must learn to proof read my posts before hitting send - the BTO engineer said that it affected 10 (ten) not 100 (hundred) connections so I'm sorry for any confusion that I may have caused. The "flood" occurred in the local green cabinet at the end of my road (about 100m from my property) - just to set the geography this is about 400m from the DSLAM.

      What he said was that the shroud over the crimps was full of water, no doubt due to the excessive rainfall we had over the previous months, and the fact that the seal had perished. He said that he had "made good" a repair. Having worked within engineering and sales for large IT (ICL) and telecomms (C&W) companies in the past I know that you are quite correct in stating that BT aren't going to change the trunk just for a handful of users (Cost / benefit etc). Another fly in the ointment is that the majority of my neighbours are with Virgin so the possibility of something akin to a class action is not going to happen.

      However, there is still a fault and, as you suggested, I will keep on at Sky to see what they are going to do about it. When I re logged the fault call on Wednesday (after the loss of d/s connection after the BTO engineer had left) I was informed that they would get back to me in about 4 days - assuming that Weekends don't count then I will call them tomorrow and try and get through to a technical person who will understand the differences between u/s, d/s and ping (Unlike the chap I spoke to on Wednesday) and will mention what the BTO engineer said about water in the cable.

      From the changes I can see with my connection I'm assuming that Sky are running DLM, which of course won't tell them anything as it is only the d/s link which is failing and, as I have been told in the past, from their end the circuit seems to be up all the time.....

      I have to confess to being a bit of a stickler for customer service and will continue to complain if I think I'm being fobbed off so I will keep on at Sky. I would imagine that even if they were to try and keep me quiet by an upgrade to fibre then this wouldn't make the problem go away as wouldn't the connection will still be over the same copper cable from the local green box to my home?

      Anyhow, I will let you know the outcome after I speak to them tomorrow and thanks again for your help.

      PS, how did you get you speedtest results in your sig?

    6. #4
      Scubbie's Avatar
      Scubbie is offline Sky User Moderator
      Exchange: 02392
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sky Q Hub ER110
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Mar 2010
      Location
      Near Portsmouth
      Posts
      27,907
      Thanks
      812
      Thanked 2,195 Times in 2,065 Posts

      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Ok, 10 people indicates to me that it is probably just a single trunk cable which is affected.

      It it is possible I would still suggest that you ask around to find out who is not with VM and use the BTO infrastructure through TalkTalk, PN, BT, Sky, etc.

      Whilst expensive, a single cable might be easier to replace than the potential 10 cables which I thought it might be this morning. I would also get anyone else who is affected to notify their ISP that this issue is affecting others.

      Any fault in the copper cabling between your home and the green street cabinet will affect a FTTC connection too, so it really will pay to chase this one if you are considering the upgrade.

      As a new member you can't yet edit your signature. Once you have accrued at least 10 posts you will be able to do so. This was to reduce the impact that spammers were having on the forum.

      Once you have achieved the minimum number of posts and the server has automatically updated its database, click the 'Settings' link at the top of the forum page. There you will see the various links to allow you to edit your Avatar, profile, signature and much more. Some of these you can edit now.

      Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro: Connected at 80,000 kbps / 20,000 kbps
      Previous ADSL2+ Speed 19999 kbps 1153 kbps, Line Attenuation 17.5 db 6.9 db, Noise Margin 7.5 dB 8.7 dB
      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

    7. #5
      DavidJFirman's Avatar
      DavidJFirman is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: 01923
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited & talk
      Router: SR101
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Location
      Watford
      Posts
      37
      Thanks
      3
      Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      (Thanks, Scubbie, for the reply, again. 3 posts down, 7 to go!)

      I've spoken to 20 neighbours, 12 of which use VM. Of the other 8, 3 don't have broadband (!!! - they are elderly) and the other 5 are not seeing any problems with thier BB or voice line. It therefore looks like I am a solitary voice on this one..... Bu99er.

      I spoke to Sky today - which initially was not a pleasant experience as the fault call I logged last Wednesday, which was passed to the Network Operations Centre (NOC) was immediately bounced back to 2nd line by them as the chap who logged it did not put enough information in the log. Unfortunately it then sat at 2nd line, with no one picking it up, untill I called today...... Nice one Sky, excellent procedure!

      2nd line are attempting to remove DLM and to put a temporary fix in place until a permanent solution can be found (ie, no disconnections [question, is this realistic? ie having a line up with no disconnects]). They are going to try and replicate the line stats (u/s, d/s, noise margin etc) where I had the minimum amount of disconnections.

      As I see it, there are three possible causes:
      1. Iffy cable, crimp with a corrosion / water related problem.
      2. Exchange issue - poss intermittent fault on one of Sky's 'big lumps of tin'
      3. External line noise somewhere between my socket and the DSLAM / Exchange, ie REIN.

      1. Seems the most likely as only the d/s is being affected, ie the higher ADSL frequencies, which makes sense if there is attenuation occurring because of corrosion in the cable / crimp.

      Anyhow, let's see what Sky make of it. For now I'll just keep monitoring the line.

    8. #6
      Scubbie's Avatar
      Scubbie is offline Sky User Moderator
      Exchange: 02392
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sky Q Hub ER110
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Mar 2010
      Location
      Near Portsmouth
      Posts
      27,907
      Thanks
      812
      Thanked 2,195 Times in 2,065 Posts

      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Taking DLM off your line should allow someone to better manage things where there is a known issue.

      DLM will constantly try to improve things but the fault will keep causing it to slow down.

      I suspect that the water has spread down the wires and caused further corrosion as it go in where the joint is.

      REIN can easily be ruled out/handled if your were to fit the new VDSL Mk2 filtered faceplate.

      Hopefully the next BTO Engineer will be able to see what is going on quickly and fix things for you.

      Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro: Connected at 80,000 kbps / 20,000 kbps
      Previous ADSL2+ Speed 19999 kbps 1153 kbps, Line Attenuation 17.5 db 6.9 db, Noise Margin 7.5 dB 8.7 dB
      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

    9. #7
      mattan's Avatar
      mattan is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: SSSWN
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sky Hub SR101
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Oct 2012
      Posts
      489
      Thanks
      21
      Thanked 30 Times in 28 Posts

      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Some of this is over my head, but a couple of things stand out that may or may not be a red herring:

      1. From the connection stats you've posted, DLM is increasing your speed and lowering your noise margin. Could this suggest that DLM is seeing a stable line?
      2. You said that when the downstream link is down, you can't access the router's admin page. Could this suggest the router is actually locking up? Were you seeing the same problems with the SR101 and SR102 routers?

    10. #8
      DavidJFirman's Avatar
      DavidJFirman is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: 01923
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited & talk
      Router: SR101
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Location
      Watford
      Posts
      37
      Thanks
      3
      Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Thanks Scubbie and Mattan for your replies.

      My line stats have not changed over the past week showing that DLM is not running at the moment (which was confirmed by Sky today).

      @Mattan, The problem has not changed regardless of the type of router (or indeed faceplace) - it started with a SR101 and is now present with a SR102 - I don't have another router. It could be the router locking up but as I had exactly the same fault on two different routers (and both PSUs and RJ11 cables were changed when I changed routers) then I don't think that it is a router fault.

      Five days further on and still no progress. The fault has been with 3rd line (Network Operations Centre, NOC) since Wednesday 8th. Since then I have heard nothing unless I have called Sky - no proactive customer communication, just the fault call being passed from one team to another in the NOC and no one telling me what is going on. The latest update is that the problem is now with a 2nd line support team in the NOC that is referred to as the SNS (Sky Network Solutions apparently). Sky BB helpdesk (who have been very good, bar one exception, if truth be told) have now reduced my D/S line speed to 6142 (upstream still the same at 797) to see if this gives any more stability to the D/S connection.

      More news as it happens........ (I bet you can hardly wait!)

    11. #9
      DavidJFirman's Avatar
      DavidJFirman is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: 01923
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited & talk
      Router: SR101
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Location
      Watford
      Posts
      37
      Thanks
      3
      Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Almost two weeks further down the line and the third engineer has just left. since my last post, Sky have:
      1. uplifted my BB circuit onto a new rack in the exchange (made no difference),
      2. played around with profiles (made no difference)
      3. listened to me berate them several times over the failings in their call handling procedures (don't know if it has made a difference but it made me feel better!)
      So, Sky recommended changing the copper pair from the DSLAM to my master socket (e-circuit?). BTO engineer basically said "that's b0ll0ck5" but did run a load of tests and changed a few crimps.


      So far, it's been up for an hour.........

    12. #10
      DavidJFirman's Avatar
      DavidJFirman is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: 01923
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited & talk
      Router: SR101
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Location
      Watford
      Posts
      37
      Thanks
      3
      Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      ......and it's down again - this time both u/s and d/s connections.

      Dear Sky..... Goodbye!

     

     
    Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

    Tags for this Thread

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •  
    SkyUser - Copyright © 2006-2017. SatDish and NewsreadeR | SkyUser is in no way affiliated with Sky Broadband / BSkyB
    RIPA NOTICE: NO CONSENT IS GIVEN FOR INTERCEPTION OF PAGE TRANSMISSION