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    D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

    This is a discussion on D/S link dropping but U/S staying up within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Originally Posted by Scubbie I would definitely chat with your neighbours to see what experiences they are getting. You never ...

    1. #41
      DavidJFirman's Avatar
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      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      I would definitely chat with your neighbours to see what experiences they are getting. You never know, they may well have the same problem.
      All my immediate neighbours either are with Virgin Media or else have no broadband (aged coffin-dodgers ). Those that do have VM have reported no problems. From looking at the cable topography, the VM cabinet is about 150m away and the BTO cabinet is another 500 beyond that so if a REIN issue it is likely to be > 150m away (otherwise VM might be affected) but the trouble with REIN is that is could be anywhere!

      Sky Level3 have told me that a few Sky BB customers "in the local area" have similar problems to me, but not as severe.

      Since the work on Friday, I have evidence of nine occasions where the downstream has "frozen" for more than 15s (max duration about 2m 30s), plus another 32 instances where the noise margin has dropped to 0dB. But with no change in IP address it means that the circuit has remained up. To my mind this is a REIN issue which, to be honest, without Sky chucking a lot of money at it (via BTO), is probably going to remain elusive. Don't get me wrong, the connection stability (and hence traffic throughput) has improved - albeit with a drop in speed - but the problem is far from solved.
      Sky unlimited BB - 7006 / 1317 (if it's working).
      [Previously Dialup with Prestel @1200/75; AOL @ 9600; Line One, Tiscali, ClaraNET & C&W @ 56k; then ADSL/ADSL2 from PlusNet, BT, PostOffice and O2]



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    3. #42
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      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      But with no change in IP address it means that the circuit has remained up.
      Possibly, but its not 100% guaranteed, you don't get a new IP address every time you disconnect, especially if the disconnection is very short. What does it say in the Router Log? That is where any drop will show.

      TomD


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    4. #43
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      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Update time.....

      I replaced the SR102 with my old O2 wireless box IV which worked straight away and just needed some parameters tweaking (IP address range) to fit in with my existing LAN. The noticeable difference was a loss of D/S speed of just under a meg but vastly improved line stability. I have heard unconfirmed* reports that the SR102 has a known bug whereby the BB connection will appear to freeze for about 20-40s (seems familiar!!) when a line is under constant usage (I was using thinkbroadband's BB quality test which polls the router every minute and RouterStats Lite's ping tester which pings the google DNS servers every 15s). Sky are sending me a SR101 as they "handle constant traffic better then the SR102" as a temp fix until the SR102's firmware is updated.

      So, all appeared well, I had a stable (but slower) line and a router that did not lock up.

      Then, on Thursday I had a call from level 3 at Sky (A planned call to see if the change of router had a positive effect). During the course of the phone call the forward errors started to increase, peaking at about 10,000 per second (according to RouterStats) and then the line dropped completely, including voice. This all took place whilst it was pouring with rain and hailing. So, Sky ordered another BTO Engineer (the 8th or 9th visit, I lose count!) for this morning as "it has to be a copper problem" (Level 3's words).

      Engineer visited this morning, found no problems (just for a change ), remade all the crimp joints he could get access to (some were under the pavement and he's not allowed to go there as he is not "cavity trained" and therefore can't go into manholes, which is understandable) between my place and the local cabinet and then left.

      We shall see what happens......


      [* from someone in Sky but Sky won't admit to it as it could (will!) cause a landslide in calls]
      Sky unlimited BB - 7006 / 1317 (if it's working).
      [Previously Dialup with Prestel @1200/75; AOL @ 9600; Line One, Tiscali, ClaraNET & C&W @ 56k; then ADSL/ADSL2 from PlusNet, BT, PostOffice and O2]


    5. #44
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      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      It is highly likely then that your issues are related to an underground cable problem. Whether they need to dig the cable up or simply pull the old one out, with the new one attached will be their decision.

      I was under the impression that the SR102 was capable of handling a constant flow of traffic. I think that there was one issue which appeared to have affected one batch of routers, but this wasn't it.

      Quote Originally Posted by DavidJFirman View Post
      ...Engineer visited this morning, found no problems (just for a change ), remade all the crimp joints he could get access to (some were under the pavement and he's not allowed to go there as he is not "cavity trained" and therefore can't go into manholes, which is understandable) between my place and the local cabinet and then left.
      Someone please tell me off! I soooo wanted to say something that I shouldn't!
      gymno and DavidJFirman like this.

      Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro: Connected at 80,000 kbps / 20,000 kbps
      Previous ADSL2+ Speed 19999 kbps 1153 kbps, Line Attenuation 17.5 db 6.9 db, Noise Margin 7.5 dB 8.7 dB
      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

    6. #45
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      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      Someone please tell me off! I soooo wanted to say something that I shouldn't!

      You're a very naughty girl and should be spanked for making a comment like that. Hang on, that's not exactly a punishment for you......
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      Sky unlimited BB - 7006 / 1317 (if it's working).
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    7. #46
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      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Hmmmmm all was OK for 24 hours, then it went pear-shaped at about 14:30 this afternoon - funnily enough when I was talking to Sky's level 3 support. Suddenly the forward error count went stratospheric with c. 10,000 errors per second and this was coupled with huge amounts of line noise. This went on, with numerous BB disconnections for about 25 minutes, then went away and left me with a stable line. L3 think it to be a voltage burst on the line - either from the exchange, local PCP or a REIN / SHINE issue and have authorised another lift and shift - just to rule out the kit in the exchange.

      This, obviously, has two outcomes - the fault either goes away (hurrah) in which case it was an exchange issue, or else (and to my cynical mind, this is the most likely scenario)) remains. So that leaves either a "weather" effect (REIN / SHINE... geddit? Oh FFS! ) or a PCP issue.

      L3 have suggested that I move to fibre, which could possibly change the "shape" of the fault and allow further diagnostic analysis, which I can see as being valid, but I'm not paying for it. I guess that's a conversation that I need to have with Customer Service / Retentions when I exercise my right to cancel my contract under the section that relates to failure to deliver a stable service - not that I want to leave Sky, I just want a stable connection.
      Sky unlimited BB - 7006 / 1317 (if it's working).
      [Previously Dialup with Prestel @1200/75; AOL @ 9600; Line One, Tiscali, ClaraNET & C&W @ 56k; then ADSL/ADSL2 from PlusNet, BT, PostOffice and O2]


    8. #47
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      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Based upon what the last BTO Engineer said, the problem won't go away with Sky Fibre.

      It sounds like the issue is with the copper cable between your cabinet and your home. Any FTTC product would be using this very same piece of cable.

      The simple (cough cough) answer is that someone needs to repair/replace the underground cable.

      Next time it drops note whether a lorry or something passed by around the same time.

      Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro: Connected at 80,000 kbps / 20,000 kbps
      Previous ADSL2+ Speed 19999 kbps 1153 kbps, Line Attenuation 17.5 db 6.9 db, Noise Margin 7.5 dB 8.7 dB
      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

    9. #48
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      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Well...... now how do I describe what has happened, oh yes, IT ALL WENT T1T5 UP!

      The lift 'n' shift took place the following day and, unsurprisingly I lost service - both BB and phone. However, the service didn't come back after 30 minutes, then an hour, then 2 hours, then 3..... (You can see what's coming can't you...). Sky Level 3 rang me (mobile) after about 3.5 hours and told me that my line was dead (I had noticed ) so it had to be passed back over to BTO. This was Friday afternoon and an expectation was set for Monday morning.

      Fair play to BTO, the line was back on Saturday morning and when I asked the engineer who called me what the fault was, he said "faulty pair" - ie dead line. When I told him that I had a lift 'n' shift done the previous day he went very quiet and mumbled something about a previous engineer then hung up. So, you don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce that the cretin who did the lift 'n' shift connected me to a faulty pair and then didn't check the circuit.

      I also have a new/replacement SR101 Sky hub (the SR102 has been utilised as a wireless AP elsewhere in my home). Level 3 initially set my D/S noise margin to 3dB, but DLM changed it to 4dB and so far all is well - D/S is at 7M, upstream 1.3M (@3.3dB) and the line is stable with no dropouts (other than DLM enforced ones in the dark hours).

      The Level 3 chap, is on holiday for the next 2 weeks and so the fault is being kept open for monitoring until he comes back.

      I don't want to tempt fate (but I'm going to regardless), maybe, just maybe, we have a fix in place.....
      Sky unlimited BB - 7006 / 1317 (if it's working).
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    10. #49
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      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Don't you just love competent workers?

      Well you would if you were sent one.

      Stories like this go some way to explain why Sky has teamed up with City Fibre and TalkTalk to set up a new joint network in York. Hopefully this will be how things progress in the future and BT PLC will suddenly find that their customers have all left.

      Hopefully the issue will be resolved soon.
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      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

    11. #50
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      Re: D/S link dropping but U/S staying up

      Quote Originally Posted by Scubbie View Post
      Hopefully the issue will be resolved soon.
      I did hope so... but it's still buggered. After EVERYTHING that has been done, the numerous engineering visits, the D and E side pair changes, the lift 'n' shifts..... I am STILL having freezes to my internet connection, as was originally reported months ago. The fault pattern changed when I was using an old O2 router (and became more "line" related, which was subsequently fixed). Now that I am back to using a Sky hub, the evidence points towards it causing the freezes. As further evidence that it could be the hub, when my connection drops out, I am still unable to ping it - either via ethernet connected laptop (Win 7) and Media Centre PC (Win 8), or wirelessley connected iPad / iPhone (iOS7.1) and netbook (Ubuntu). I know if this was the case then there would be thousands of people complaining - but I have seen a load of "disquiet" being reported on other forums (BE / O2 CUSTOMERS RECENT MIGRATION TO SKY - Page 34 - Sky Community) and allegations of problems with Sky hubs.

      Something <removed> strange is going on here, it could be REIN / SHINE (in which case I doubt it will ever be solved) or maybe there is a hub issue...?

      Frankly I don;t care, I just want a connection that allows me to reach the sites that I need to without seeing connection failures numerous times per day. As I have said before, the <removed> annoying this is that the main circuit stays up, it just won't connect to anything for a minute or two, then comes back (same IP address) as if there was nothing wrong. Arrrrgghhhh - you irritating <removed>!

      /rant over.
      Last edited by Scubbie; 17-06-14 at 09:49 PM. Reason: Removed swear words
      Sky unlimited BB - 7006 / 1317 (if it's working).
      [Previously Dialup with Prestel @1200/75; AOL @ 9600; Line One, Tiscali, ClaraNET & C&W @ 56k; then ADSL/ADSL2 from PlusNet, BT, PostOffice and O2]


     

     
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