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    Sky broadband intermittent despite 6 engineer visits!

    This is a discussion on Sky broadband intermittent despite 6 engineer visits! within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; I signed up to Sky broadband at the very end of January after moving home. The broadband was intermittent then ...

    1. #1
      perch123's Avatar
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      Sky broadband intermittent despite 6 engineer visits!

      I signed up to Sky broadband at the very end of January after moving home. The broadband was intermittent then and still is now. I have had 6 broadband engineers and 1 phone engineer out, the last one coming out yesterday.

      When I say intermittent on average it goes down every 30 minutes.

      Up until engineer 3 the broadband was going out of sync (white face turning off, then flashing orange and coming back on). Since engineer 3 I rarely have this problem but the internet just stops working and the white face stays solid. Sometimes you can wait and it comes back, most times though I just reset the router for it to come back. Most times it does come back on once being manually reset.

      Open Reach claim they have replaced everything that can be replaced, Sky has replaced the hub once.

      There are rare occasions where the browser and email will go down but Skype will still work (most of the time everything goes down). Another weird thing is that it rarely goes down before 10am but after then it goes down a lot all the time (I work from home so I can monitor it).

      I am frustrated with calling Sky, having engineers come round, being without broadband for a lot of the time and ultimately having intermittent broadband. If anyone on the forum could help with this that would be appreciated.

      Thanks in advance.


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    3. #2
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      Re: Sky broadband intermittent despite 6 engineer visits!

      Lets start with the basics - and I appreciate this is a drag for you but the info may be helpful for diagnosis:

      • Post your router connection stats (sync speeds and noise margins) when the connection is performing OK
      • Check next time you get a disconnection and see if those stats have materially changed - particularly the noise margin
      • Post your router log (under security tab) removing IP address as it's possibly best not posting it
      • Describe your connection set up from BT master socket inwards - faceplates, filters, phone extensions, sky boxes etc i.e. what's plugged into what, wireless and ethernet

    4. #3
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      Re: Sky broadband intermittent despite 6 engineer visits!

      Quote Originally Posted by Saturday View Post
      Lets start with the basics - and I appreciate this is a drag for you but the info may be helpful for diagnosis:

      • Post your router connection stats (sync speeds and noise margins) when the connection is performing OK
      • Check next time you get a disconnection and see if those stats have materially changed - particularly the noise margin
      • Post your router log (under security tab) removing IP address as it's possibly best not posting it
      • Describe your connection set up from BT master socket inwards - faceplates, filters, phone extensions, sky boxes etc i.e. what's plugged into what, wireless and ethernet
      Thanks, sorry - where can I find the router stats?

      Is the router log in the same place as the above?

      Connection - one rein MK2 BT socket with broadband in one hole and telephone in the other hole. No Sky TV or other sockets in use. I have a laptop, iPad and phone which connect wirelessly and a voip phone which connects via ethernet

      Thanks

    5. #4
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      Re: Sky broadband intermittent despite 6 engineer visits!

      Log into your router. Click on the "Maintenance" tab, scroll to the bottom of the page and click on "Show Statistics". A small window will open and your router stats will be there. As said before, you'll find the log under the "Security" tab.

      By rein "MK2 BT socket" do you mean the new BT VDSL faceplate on an NTE5 master socket or something else?

      And by "no other sockets in use" do you mean there are no other sockets or there are but you don't use them?

    6. #5
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      Re: Sky broadband intermittent despite 6 engineer visits!

      Quote Originally Posted by Saturday View Post
      Log into your router. Click on the "Maintenance" tab, scroll to the bottom of the page and click on "Show Statistics". A small window will open and your router stats will be there. As said before, you'll find the log under the "Security" tab.

      By rein "MK2 BT socket" do you mean the new BT VDSL faceplate on an NTE5 master socket or something else?

      And by "no other sockets in use" do you mean there are no other sockets or there are but you don't use them?
      Thanks

      New BT VDSL faceplate I believe.

      There are 5 other sockets in the house but they have been disconnected so can't be used.

      Log

      Jan 1 00:00:07 syslog: BusyBox v1.17.2
      Jan 1 00:00:17 syslog: Line 0: xDSL G.994 training
      Jan 1 00:00:17 syslog: eth3 (switch port: 2) Link UP 100 mbps full duplex
      Jan 1 00:00:34 syslog: Line 0: ADSL G.992 started
      Jan 1 00:00:38 syslog: Line 0: ADSL G.992 channel analysis
      Jan 1 00:00:45 syslog: Line 0: ADSL G.992 message exchange
      Jan 1 00:00:46 syslog: Line 0: ADSL link down
      Jan 1 00:00:47 syslog: Line 0: xDSL G.994 training
      Jan 1 00:01:04 syslog: Line 0: ADSL G.992 started
      Jan 1 00:01:08 syslog: Line 0: ADSL G.992 channel analysis
      Jan 1 00:01:15 syslog: Line 0: ADSL G.992 message exchange
      Jan 1 00:01:16 syslog: Line 0: ADSL link up, Bearer 0, us=413, ds=4094
      Jan 1 00:01:23 syslog: PPP LCP UP.
      Jan 1 00:01:23 syslog: PPP Connection status ERROR_NONE
      Jan 1 00:01:24 syslog: PPP Connection status ERROR_NONE
      Jan 1 00:01:24 syslog: WAN link UP.
      Jan 1 00:01:24 syslog: Received valid IP address from server. Connection UP.
      Jan 1 00:01:25 syslog: Connection Up. SNO/MAC/IP:
      Jan 1 00:01:26 syslog: Send out NTP request to ntp1.isp.sky.com
      Jan 1 00:01:26 syslog: Time has been set from ntp1.isp.sky.com
      Mar 25 17:10:31 syslog: Received NTP Sync Reply from ntp1.isp.sky.com



      Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 4088 kbps 413 kbps
      Line Attenuation 56.0 dB 36.1 dB
      Noise Margin 7.3 dB 15.15 dB


      Last edited by Saturday; 26-03-14 at 09:15 AM. Reason: Removed duplicate posting

    7. #6
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      Re: Sky broadband intermittent despite 6 engineer visits!

      So that's the complete log? That one entry shows the router was completely restarted. Did you trigger that or did it just happen?

      Either way those figures aren't at all right, The ADSL connection took two attempts to connect which may or may not be an issue but more importantly, your sync figures are very odd. It looks to me as though your connection is being profiled down i.e. capped, probably by DLM, which would indicate a line fault.

      Those other sockets - are you sure they've been disconnected? If you do a quiet line test can you hear noise/crackling?

    8. #7
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      Re: Sky broadband intermittent despite 6 engineer visits!

      Quote Originally Posted by Saturday View Post
      So that's the complete log? That one entry shows the router was completely restarted. Did you trigger that or did it just happen?

      Either way those figures aren't at all right, The ADSL connection took two attempts to connect which may or may not be an issue but more importantly, your sync figures are very odd. It looks to me as though your connection is being profiled down i.e. capped, probably by DLM, which would indicate a line fault.

      Those other sockets - are you sure they've been disconnected? If you do a quiet line test can you hear noise/crackling?
      The router had gone down and I had restarted it last night. Latest log is below, not sure if that sheds any more light? What is DLM. If it's a line fault is that Sky or BT?

      I've been told by Openreach the other sockets have been disconnected and no phone works on them. I have done a quiet line test and can't hear noise/crackling

      Jan 1 00:00:07 syslog: BusyBox v1.17.2
      Jan 1 00:00:16 syslog: Line 0: xDSL G.994 training
      Jan 1 00:00:18 syslog: eth3 (switch port: 2) Link UP 100 mbps full duplex
      Jan 1 00:00:33 syslog: Line 0: ADSL G.992 started
      Jan 1 00:00:38 syslog: Line 0: ADSL G.992 channel analysis
      Jan 1 00:00:44 syslog: Line 0: ADSL G.992 message exchange
      Jan 1 00:00:45 syslog: Line 0: ADSL link down
      Jan 1 00:00:46 syslog: Line 0: xDSL G.994 training
      Jan 1 00:01:03 syslog: Line 0: ADSL G.992 started
      Jan 1 00:01:08 syslog: Line 0: ADSL G.992 channel analysis
      Jan 1 00:01:14 syslog: Line 0: ADSL G.992 message exchange
      Jan 1 00:01:15 syslog: Line 0: ADSL link up, Bearer 0, us=413, ds=4088
      Jan 1 00:01:23 syslog: PPP LCP UP.
      Jan 1 00:01:23 syslog: PPP Connection status ERROR_NONE
      Jan 1 00:01:23 syslog: PPP Connection status ERROR_NONE
      Jan 1 00:01:23 syslog: WAN link UP.
      Jan 1 00:01:23 syslog: Received valid IP address from server. Connection UP.
      Jan 1 00:01:25 syslog: Connection Up. SNO/MAC/IP: [A500141B013756/7C4CA5CB3C00/]
      Jan 1 00:01:25 syslog: Send out NTP request to ntp1.isp.sky.com
      Jan 1 00:01:25 syslog: Time has been set from ntp1.isp.sky.com
      Mar 25 22:32:54 syslog: Received NTP Sync Reply from ntp1.isp.sky.com

      Thanks

    9. #8
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      Re: Sky broadband intermittent despite 6 engineer visits!

      OK, let's go through this logically:

      • The fact you've had so many Openreach visits would seem to confirm you have an unresolved line problem - Sky wouldn't keep sending them out if they couldn't see a fault.
      • That it took until the OR engineer 3 visit before things started to improve suggests some problem(s) was found and fixed.
      • One must presume that whoever fitted the VDSL socket did a proper job and that your wiring is OK.
      • One must presume that the OR engineers could find no external line fault.
      • DLM is an automated tool used by Sky to set your line sync at the optimum for your line conditions
      • DLM appears to have capped your line i.e. it thinks there is a line problem still
      • DLM is continuing to reset your connection


      So, this is my best guess of what's going on: You have a line issue and no-one can discover what it is. The line issue is probably noise induced from an external factor. The noise is intermittent and possibly of short duration. The noise causes your router noise margin to drop to such a level that your connection is reset.

      Finding the cause of this sort of noise problem can be a challenge. Your wiring is presumably OK. Your line seems OK. You have the best possible filtering with the VDSL socket so there's nothing more you can do there. Presumably it's not something daft like you have your router or router cable on top of something electrical, chances are that the noise source is somewhere between your property and the exchange.Whilst every OR engineer has some training in noise (REIN) troubleshooting, there are a few specialists who deal with the problem cases. They can and do fix this sort of problem. The challenge is getting one.

      You need to get two things done.

      1. First, to eliminate the last of local potential issues, make sure your router and router cable is at least two feet away from anything electrical that may be broadcasting noise - that's TV, power lines or outlets, power supplies, phones, printers, monitors etc. Unplug and power off your Voip phone. See if you still get disconnections.
      2. Then, second, if you do still get disconnections, ask Sky to manually re-profile your line. I suspect your upstream sync could go up a little but your downstream will have to drop a fair bit to give you a high noise margin which can cope with this transient noise. At the same time, as the re-profiling isn't a satisfactory long term solution, ask Sky to book a specialist Openreach REIN engineer to investigate the problems you're having*. If having moved your router etc you don't now have disconnections, you've identified the problem so ask Sky to run DLM again which will get you the best connection for the new line characteristics


      * won't be easy and may end up costing you some money if they can't find the issue or it turns out to be something in your home.
      Last edited by Saturday; 26-03-14 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Added info

    10. #9
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      Re: Sky broadband intermittent despite 6 engineer visits!

      It maybe worth your while installing Routerstats Lite. This will show whether there are noise spikes causing the problem. You will have to install it on a PC which you can keep running for at least 24 hours.
      Internet Software

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.





    11. #10
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      Re: Sky broadband intermittent despite 6 engineer visits!

      Quote Originally Posted by Saturday View Post
      OK, let's go through this logically:

      • The fact you've had so many Openreach visits would seem to confirm you have an unresolved line problem - Sky wouldn't keep sending them out if they couldn't see a fault.
      • That it took until the OR engineer 3 visit before things started to improve suggests some problem(s) was found and fixed.
      • One must presume that whoever fitted the VDSL socket did a proper job and that your wiring is OK.
      • One must presume that the OR engineers could find no external line fault.
      • DLM is an automated tool used by Sky to set your line sync at the optimum for your line conditions
      • DLM appears to have capped your line i.e. it thinks there is a line problem still
      • DLM is continuing to reset your connection


      So, this is my best guess of what's going on: You have a line issue and no-one can discover what it is. The line issue is probably noise induced from an external factor. The noise is intermittent and possibly of short duration. The noise causes your router noise margin to drop to such a level that your connection is reset.

      Finding the cause of this sort of noise problem can be a challenge. Your wiring is presumably OK. Your line seems OK. You have the best possible filtering with the VDSL socket so there's nothing more you can do there. Presumably it's not something daft like you have your router or router cable on top of something electrical, chances are that the noise source is somewhere between your property and the exchange.Whilst every OR engineer has some training in noise (REIN) troubleshooting, there are a few specialists who deal with the problem cases. They can and do fix this sort of problem. The challenge is getting one.

      You need to get two things done.

      1. First, to eliminate the last of local potential issues, make sure your router and router cable is at least two feet away from anything electrical that may be broadcasting noise - that's TV, power lines or outlets, power supplies, phones, printers, monitors etc. Unplug and power off your Voip phone. See if you still get disconnections.
      2. Then, second, if you do still get disconnections, ask Sky to manually re-profile your line. I suspect your upstream sync could go up a little but your downstream will have to drop a fair bit to give you a high noise margin which can cope with this transient noise. At the same time, as the re-profiling isn't a satisfactory long term solution, ask Sky to book a specialist Openreach REIN engineer to investigate the problems you're having*. If having moved your router etc you don't now have disconnections, you've identified the problem so ask Sky to run DLM again which will get you the best connection for the new line characteristics


      * won't be easy and may end up costing you some money if they can't find the issue or it turns out to be something in your home.
      Thanks, I will try moving it away from electrical things and unplugging the voipfone for now and see if that works.

      Do you think by switching providers to another company this would work or is there an issue on the line which would happen with whatever company I'm with?

     

     
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