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    Erratic upstream attenuation

    This is a discussion on Erratic upstream attenuation within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; I have a quick query for the more experienced users, I recently had Sky broadband installed at a new property, ...

    1. #1
      Khristian's Avatar
      Khristian is offline Sky User Member
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      Erratic upstream attenuation

      I have a quick query for the more experienced users, I recently had Sky broadband installed at a new property, originally I was advised (by Sky) I would get between 7-14 Mbps, BT were saying 10-19.5 Mbps (Typically 17 Mbps). So of course I'm happy that I'm receiving 21 Mbps / 1.2 Mbps.

      However I have noticed that when the line re-syncs the upstream attenuation can sometimes change wildly.

      Examples:

      Wed 07 Nov 2012 *08:00 Rx-Noise=3.2 Tx-Noise=9.8 Rx-Sync=21021 Tx-Sync=1193 DownAtt=13.0 UpAtt=8.5
      Thu 08 Nov 2012 *00:58 Rx-Noise=3.1 Tx-Noise=7.0 Rx-Sync=21022 Tx-Sync=1175 DownAtt=13.0 UpAtt=5.7
      Thu 08 Nov 2012 *01:06 Rx-Noise=3.1 Tx-Noise=7.1 Rx-Sync=21021 Tx-Sync=1175 DownAtt=13.0 UpAtt=4.1
      Thu 08 Nov 2012 *09:27 Rx-Noise=3.1 Tx-Noise=7.2 Rx-Sync=21021 Tx-Sync=1179 DownAtt=13.0 UpAtt=7.4
      Thu 08 Nov 2012 *12:07 Rx-Noise=3.1 Tx-Noise=9.5 Rx-Sync=21021 Tx-Sync=1161 DownAtt=12.5 UpAtt=8.4 ***
      Thu 08 Nov 2012 *12:15 Rx-Noise=3.1 Tx-Noise=7.1 Rx-Sync=21021 Tx-Sync=1157 DownAtt=12.5 UpAtt=6.1 ***
      Thu 08 Nov 2012 *12:45 Rx-Noise=3.1 Tx-Noise=0.2 Rx-Sync=21018 Tx-Sync=1157 DownAtt=12.5 UpAtt=6.0 ***
      Thu 08 Nov 2012 *12:50 Rx-Noise=3.1 Tx-Noise=100.1 Rx-Sync=21021 Tx-Sync=1179 DownAtt=13.0 UpAtt=8.5
      Thu 08 Nov 2012 *13:35 Rx-Noise=3.1 Tx-Noise=9.6 Rx-Sync=21020 Tx-Sync=1186 DownAtt=13.0 UpAtt=8.5
      Thu 08 Nov 2012 *13:40 Rx-Noise=3.1 Tx-Noise=9.9 Rx-Sync=21018 Tx-Sync=1182 DownAtt=13.0 UpAtt=4.3
      Thu 08 Nov 2012 *15:46 Rx-Noise=3.1 Tx-Noise=7.1 Rx-Sync=21022 Tx-Sync=1179 DownAtt=13.0 UpAtt=8.5

      *** = Using Sky's F@st2504n, all other times using Netgear DGND3700v1

      There have been other times the Upstream Attenuation has shown as low as 0.2.

      So I've been battling for a week with 'First Line' to pass it to CST to book an engineer, it's now passed to CST, just waiting on if a BTO engineer will be sent out.

      I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced this, and if so was it a line issue or something else?

      Fortunately I'm one of those customers who CST have previously agreed can use my own equipment providing if there is a fault I can also demonstrate this using the Sky equipment (hence the *** marked tests). I have also of course checked all wiring and ran tests using the test socket, different cables, filters (including an NTE2000 and vDSL faceplate (as now supplied by BT).

      For those who will request it, full current stats from telnet are:


      adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
      Status: Showtime
      Last Retrain Reason: 0
      Last initialization procedure status: 0
      Max: Upstream rate = 1247 Kbps, Downstream rate = 23724 Kbps
      Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 1189 Kbps, Downstream rate = 20974 Kbps

      Link Power State: L0
      Mode: ADSL2+
      TPS-TC: ATM Mode
      Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
      Line Status: No Defect
      Training Status: Showtime
      Down Up
      SNR (dB): 3.1 8.9
      Attn(dB): 13.0 7.7
      Pwr(dBm): 18.5 12.1

      ADSL2 framing
      Bearer 0
      MSGc: 59 14
      B: 216 17
      M: 1 8
      T: 3 7
      R: 16 14
      S: 0.3306 3.8419
      L: 5639 329
      D: 96 8

      Counters
      Bearer 0
      SF: 122125 117050
      SFErr: 0 0
      RS: 23814344 2047647
      RSCorr: 448 0
      RSUnCorr: 0 0

      Bearer 0
      HEC: 0 0
      OCD: 0 0
      LCD: 0 0
      Total Cells: 97354225 5522655
      Data Cells: 422006 101086
      Drop Cells: 0
      Bit Errors: 0 0

      ES: 0 0
      SES: 0 0
      UAS: 0 0
      AS: 1969

      Bearer 0
      INP: 1.00 1.00
      INPRein: 0.00 0.00
      delay: 7 7
      PER: 16.11 16.80
      OR: 32.26 9.51

      Bitswap: 355/360 314/314

      Total time = 32 min 49 sec
      FEC: 448 0
      CRC: 0 0
      ES: 0 0
      SES: 0 0
      UAS: 0 0
      LOS: 0 0
      LOF: 0 0
      LOM: 0 0
      Latest 15 minutes time = 2 min 49 sec
      FEC: 27 0
      CRC: 0 0
      ES: 0 0
      SES: 0 0
      UAS: 0 0
      LOS: 0 0
      LOF: 0 0
      LOM: 0 0
      Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
      FEC: 157 0
      CRC: 0 0
      ES: 0 0
      SES: 0 0
      UAS: 0 0
      LOS: 0 0
      LOF: 0 0
      LOM: 0 0
      Latest 1 day time = 32 min 49 sec
      FEC: 448 0
      CRC: 0 0
      ES: 0 0
      SES: 0 0
      UAS: 0 0
      LOS: 0 0
      LOF: 0 0
      LOM: 0 0
      Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
      FEC: 0 0
      CRC: 0 0
      ES: 0 0
      SES: 0 0
      UAS: 0 0
      LOS: 0 0
      LOF: 0 0
      LOM: 0 0
      Since Link time = 32 min 47 sec
      FEC: 448 0
      CRC: 0 0
      ES: 0 0
      SES: 0 0
      UAS: 0 0
      LOS: 0 0
      LOF: 0 0
      LOM: 0 0
      ~ #


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    3. #2
      gymno's Avatar
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      Re: Erratic upstream attenuation

      You're not the only one.

      My upstream attenuation sat between 13.9 & 14.3db for about 10 months, before my line developed a fault & i had some work done on it.
      Since then, on each resync it can be anywhere between 6 & 14.3db.

      From reading the stats in a few other posts, it seems to be happening to several others too.

      I first posed the question here: Upstream attenuation halved?

      I can't say i've come across a satisfactory explanation yet, but the good news is in all cases so far, it's had no effect on line performance at all.

    4. #3
      Isitme's Avatar
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      Re: Erratic upstream attenuation

      I think Gymno has the right attitude, if you are not suffering problems, don't worry about it. Apart from that your stats are excellent with no uncorrected errors and a good sync speed. What more can you want

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


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    5. #4
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      Re: Erratic upstream attenuation

      It could well be power saving features

      check the upstream / downstream power level on each sync

      mine never changes due to my dslam not having the power save modules installed

      One from a few days ago

      LocalSNRMargin = 8.35 dB
      LocalLineAttn = 18.5 dB
      INPup = 0.00
      INPdown = 0.00
      PMstatus = L0
      LocalTxPower = 8.4 dB
      LocalFastChannelRxRate = 21950004
      LocalFastChannelTxRate = 1216000
      RemoteTxPower = 20.3 dB
      RemoteLineAttn = 5.5 dB
      RemoteSNRMargin = 9.5 dB

      My current sync

      LocalSNRMargin = 11.55 dB
      LocalLineAttn = 18.5 dB
      INPup = 0.00
      INPdown = 0.00
      LocalTxPower = 8.4 dB
      LocalFastChannelRxRate = 20251840
      LocalFastChannelTxRate = 1216000
      RemoteTxPower = 20.3 dB
      RemoteLineAttn = 5.5 dB
      RemoteSNRMargin = 9.0 dB

    6. #5
      Khristian's Avatar
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      Re: Erratic upstream attenuation

      Hi

      Cheers for the feedback, I'm inclined to agree after reading around that it's nothing really to worry about as it does not seem to be causing any really high errors.

      I've checked a few readings that I had from the router regarding power, these were

      Rx-Noise=3.1 Tx-Noise=8.9 Rx-Sync=20974 Tx-Sync=1189 DownAtt=13.0 UpAtt=7.7 DownPwr=18.5 UpPwr=12.1

      Rx-Noise=3.2 Tx-Noise=9.9 Rx-Sync=21003 Tx-Sync=1182 DownAtt=13.0 UpAtt=5.2 DownPwr=18.5 UpPwr=12.0

      Rx-Noise=3.1 Tx-Noise=7.1 Rx-Sync=21003 Tx-Sync=1189 DownAtt=13.0 UpAtt=2.9 DownPwr=18.4 UpPwr=12.0

      Rx-Noise=3.1 Tx-Noise=7.0 Rx-Sync=21021 Tx-Sync=1182 DownAtt=13.0 UpAtt=8.3 DownPwr=18.4 UpPwr=12.0

      So it seems the power is staying pretty much stable.

      I do just have a couple of other questions, can anyone advise if my current (21/1.3) profile (as per MySky) is equivalent to a 'Gamer' profile? Not that I'm a gamer, but the lower ping times would be useful as I have a couple of VoIP adapters that I frequently use for working from home.

      Also, as I'm sure some users will agree the Netgear DGND3700v1 is not exactly the best of routers and has some issues, so I'm not adverse to using the Sky supplied equipment (although the lack of stats is annoying), can anyone advise (in their opinion) if the new SR101 would be better than the f@st2504n? I'm not over fussed about the wireless as I use several Apple Airports around the house.

    7. #6
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      Re: Erratic upstream attenuation

      I do just have a couple of other questions, can anyone advise if my current (21/1.3) profile (as per MySky) is equivalent to a 'Gamer' profile?
      No on the gamer profile you would be on 20/1.3. I doubt if it would improve it much as you will be on a 8 ms delay, same as the gamer. What is your ping time?

      From what I have read on the forum the new Hub is not much better, if any than the 2504N.

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.





    8. #7
      Khristian's Avatar
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      Re: Erratic upstream attenuation

      Just done a quick ping test from my PC

      Pinging BBC - Homepage [212.58.244.68] with 32 bytes of data:
      Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=34ms TTL=54
      Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=33ms TTL=54
      Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=54
      Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=33ms TTL=54

      Ping statistics for 212.58.244.68:
      Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
      Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
      Minimum = 33ms, Maximum = 36ms, Average = 34ms

      Test from an iMac and pretty much the same results, so actually not looking too bad although sometimes it does go a bit high but I've been putting that down to it being 'busy' times.

    9. #8
      gymno's Avatar
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      Re: Erratic upstream attenuation

      I'm on the 20mb gamer profile.

      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 19999*kbps 1175*kbps
      Line Attenuation 22.5*dB 11.4*dB
      Noise Margin 6.9*dB 9.0*dB

      PING 212.58.244.68 (212.58.244.68): 56 data bytes
      56 bytes from 212.58.244.68: icmp_seq=0 ttl=56 time=24.5 ms
      56 bytes from 212.58.244.68: icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=24.9 ms
      56 bytes from 212.58.244.68: icmp_seq=2 ttl=56 time=24.4 ms
      56 bytes from 212.58.244.68: icmp_seq=3 ttl=56 time=24.4 ms

      I only own a ps3 so can't do proper cmd prompts.
      The ping test above was done using the tool on the diagnostics page of my router & i'm told the icmp that it uses gives slightly worse results than a cmd prompt would.

      It may be that your max delays are set to 16ms & not 8ms, which is basically all the gamer profile does.

      Other forum members know a lot more about this than i do though, so i'd hang on for another opinion.

    10. #9
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      Re: Erratic upstream attenuation

      D: 96 8
      INP: 1.00 1.00
      delay: 7 7

      You are on better than the gamer profile can provide

      you are on 7ms downstream delay 7ms upstream delay
      Max interleave depth 96 downstream
      Max interleave depth 8 upstream

      if sky set you to the gamer profile you would get 8 8
      320 8


      Regards to your ping first you have to account for your route into london
      second you have to add a few ms for wireless

      Wired
      Pinging 212.58.244.68 with 32 bytes of data:
      Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=55
      Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=55
      Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=55
      Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=55

      Ping statistics for 212.58.244.68:
      Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
      Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
      Minimum = 11ms, Maximum = 11ms, Average = 11ms

      Wireless
      Pinging 212.58.244.68 with 32 bytes of data:
      Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=55
      Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=55
      Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=55
      Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=55

      Ping statistics for 212.58.244.68:
      Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
      Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
      Minimum = 13ms, Maximum = 17ms, Average = 15ms

    11. #10
      gymno's Avatar
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      Re: Erratic upstream attenuation

      ignore
      Last edited by gymno; 10-11-12 at 06:17 PM. Reason: replied to post not aimed at me

     

     
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