Your forum username:
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up


    Welcome to Sky User - The Unofficial Support Forum for everything Sky! - Proudly helping over 65k members.


    Advertisement

    Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
    Results 31 to 40 of 43

    Speeds dropping on router reset and Speed seems to be stuck?

    This is a discussion on Speeds dropping on router reset and Speed seems to be stuck? within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Although your set up has not changed, that does not mean the line back to the exchange has not. There ...

    1. #31
      Isitme's Avatar
      Isitme is offline Sky User Moderator
      Exchange: Bannockburn
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sky Hub SR102
      Sky TV: Sky+ HD
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
      Location
      Central Scotland
      Posts
      34,131
      Thanks
      64
      Thanked 1,641 Times in 1,602 Posts

      Re: Speeds dropping on router reset and Speed seems to be stuck?

      Although your set up has not changed, that does not mean the line back to the exchange has not. There are a lot of things that can cause this, a joint in a cabinet being 'not quite right', a difference in the ambient temperature causing movement of a joint, a manhole being flooded, there are too many reasons to list. Unless you have interference on your voice line, it is very unlikely anything can be done about it.

      As it stands, the only way you will get more speed is by artificially lowering your noise margin. This is possible on some of Sky's routers, but I don't know if there is a tool available for yours which would allow this. The alternative is to buy your own router, and get one which allows the noise margin to be manipulated.

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.






    2. Advertisement
    3. #32
      ufo's Avatar
      ufo
      ufo is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited
      Router: Sagem F@ST 2504
      Sky TV: Sky+
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Posts
      67
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

      Re: Speeds dropping on router reset and Speed seems to be stuck?

      Quote Originally Posted by IWasNotTheEnemy View Post
      Unless the SNR can be increase with setup changes your end there's little to no chance of Sky doing anything to get the half a meg back as it's the physical line limiting things
      This is indeed what everything is pointing to even before I contacted Sky.

      I can't get the Noise Margin any higher than 7.4 dB (7.5dB if I'm really lucky) but obviously thats not enough to kick in any new DLM.

      As I'd mentioned, it would appear all that all stats including Noise Margin and Attenuation were the same when I was achieving the higher rate of speed.

      So I can't put it down to anything else - it must be that DLM has selected the lowest speed which it has seen during it's testing and set it to that (or to go no higher than that). It's the only logical explanation.


      Quote Originally Posted by IsItMe
      As it stands, the only way you will get more speed is by artificially lowering your noise margin. This is possible on some of Sky's routers, but I don't know if there is a tool available for yours which would allow this. The alternative is to buy your own router, and get one which allows the noise margin to be manipulated.
      This I am aware of, though by changing the noise margin (even artificially as you say) is the only advantage to that not that it would force DLM Optimization to kick in again?

      I notice that the Sky Router Tool can now be used with the Sagem 2504 with a firmware update, but I can't find anywhere in the notes of the Sky Router Tool that would confirm the user can manually alter the noise margin or not.

      What kind of a noise margin increase/decrease would be required before DLM would kick in again - are we talking a full 1.0 dB up or down?

    4. #33
      User05's Avatar
      User05 is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sagem F@ST 2504n
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Dec 2008
      Posts
      3,030
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 171 Times in 164 Posts

      Re: Speeds dropping on router reset and Speed seems to be stuck?

      Quote Originally Posted by ufo View Post
      So I can't put it down to anything else - it must be that DLM has selected the lowest speed which it has seen during it's testing and set it to that (or to go no higher than that). It's the only logical explanation.
      Again, you are not capped. As I've pointed out, if you want Sky to confirm this, then call them again by all means. How could this be DLM 'selecting the lowest speed' when you're getting different rates when rebooting the router? This is not DLM.

      Quote Originally Posted by ufo View Post
      What kind of a noise margin increase/decrease would be required before DLM would kick in again - are we talking a full 1.0 dB up or down?
      You're way over-estimating just how active DLM really is. It won't kick in with xdB change, it'll kick in when it sees an unacceptable number of re-trains and/or enough high error snapshots over certain periods of time. Fair enough if you're interested in how it works, but I honestly think you're way over-thinking this.

    5. #34
      ufo's Avatar
      ufo
      ufo is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited
      Router: Sagem F@ST 2504
      Sky TV: Sky+
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Posts
      67
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

      Re: Speeds dropping on router reset and Speed seems to be stuck?

      Quote Originally Posted by User05
      Again, you are not capped. As I've pointed out, if you want Sky to confirm this, then call them again by all means. How could this be DLM 'selecting the lowest speed' when you're getting different rates when rebooting the router? This is not DLM.
      I think we're disagreeing on minor terms here and it is possible that I've gotten my terms incorrect. Maybe "capped" is the wrong word. But I'm fairly certain it's DLM.


      So I'll try to re-explain as best as I can...

      Previously, 21 days ago, I was connected at around 4.75mb/s. I had no problems, but unknown to me, DLM was running in the background. I continued to be connected at 4.75mb/s with no problems.

      In the meantime, DLM finished 14 days ago, it determined that my line should be connected at 4.0mb/s but I didn't know, as I was still happily connected at 4.75mb/s with no problems. I would only find this out later on a reboot.

      7 Days ago, I then had a power failure. So router had to be restarted. But because DLM had already made its own decisions it meant I was never going to be able to get back to my 4.75mb/s that I had previously, because due to what DLM had set, my download would never exceed or be able to push through any more than 4.0 mb/s.


      Taken from the My Sky page and I quote:

      "Line connection testing completed resulting in the following settings:

      Download speed setting
      Your connection has been set to a download speed of up to 4.0Mbps."



      So as you can see my download speed is "up to" 4.0Mbps. So DLM has determined that it should not be allowed to go past this because this will keep it (ahem) stable.


      Quote Originally Posted by User05
      You're way over-estimating just how active DLM really is. It won't kick in with xdB change, it'll kick in when it sees an unacceptable number of re-trains and/or enough high error snapshots over certain periods of time. Fair enough if you're interested in how it works, but I honestly think you're way over-thinking this.

      Sky Customer Services led me to believe that it was running all the time and everyones connection was constantly being checked at regular intervals as well as using a kind of SRA mechanism that would dynamically correct speeds 'on the fly' (my words in quotations). It sounds like I have received some bad advice here.

      I am interested in how it works, because I seem to be getting conflicting stories from various sources including Sky over the phone.

      So:

      - what is considered an unacceptable number of retrains?
      - what is considered too high a number of error snapshots?

      And over what period of time is all of this being considered against?




      The other issue is, it appears that DLM will set your connection to the lowest possible speed within a given range that it can handle (e.g. if your acceptable range is tested during that DLM process between 4.0 mb/s and 4.5 mb/s, it would still set it to 4.0mb/s because that's the lower of the 2 speeds).

      In that case, the more occasions that DLM kicks in the worse for my connection, as it hasn't got anywhere to go but downwards each time and this is my major concern.

      If my DLM check this time came in at the lowest speed this time of 4.0mb/s, what happens next?

      If it has to re-DLM again in the near future, it will probably test between 3.5mb/s and 4.0mb/s and since 3.5mb/s is the lowest acceptable, it would probably set it to that.


      I have never yet heard of anyone's connection going up through DLM, only downward sadly. It seems to be a rather flawed system.

    6. #35
      User05's Avatar
      User05 is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sagem F@ST 2504n
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Dec 2008
      Posts
      3,030
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 171 Times in 164 Posts

      Re: Speeds dropping on router reset and Speed seems to be stuck?

      Quote Originally Posted by ufo View Post
      In the meantime, DLM finished 14 days ago, it determined that my line should be connected at 4.0mb/s but I didn't know, as I was still happily connected at 4.75mb/s with no problems. I would only find this out later on a reboot.

      7 Days ago, I then had a power failure. So router had to be restarted. But because DLM had already made its own decisions it meant I was never going to be able to get back to my 4.75mb/s that I had previously, because due to what DLM had set, my download would never exceed or be able to push through any more than 4.0 mb/s.
      You're misunderstanding how DLM works. DLM does not make 'decisions' which you'll notice on a reboot. As I've already said -

      a) Runs 24/7 collating data. Go to b) if it finds line is unstable
      b) Starts an optimisation period. This can last anywhere from a couple of days, all the way up to ten. IT will try one new profile each day around the hours of 1am-6am. All throughout the optimisation period, it will still collate data and eventually when it deems the line stable, will stop the optimisation period and go back to a).

      At no point does it make 'decisions' that YOU need to reboot to take effect. It does everything. You keep suggesting that you're capped, but if you were capped at 4mbps then your sync would not go higher than 4096kbps, which it does go higher. i.e. You are not capped at 4mbps.

      Quote Originally Posted by ufo View Post
      Taken from the My Sky page and I quote:

      "Line connection testing completed resulting in the following settings:

      Download speed setting
      Your connection has been set to a download speed of up to 4.0Mbps."
      This is rarely correct and should be ignored.

      Quote Originally Posted by ufo View Post
      Sky Customer Services led me to believe that it was running all the time and everyones connection was constantly being checked at regular intervals as well as using a kind of SRA mechanism that would dynamically correct speeds 'on the fly' (my words in quotations). It sounds like I have received some bad advice here.
      Yes, you have, as it's not right.

      Quote Originally Posted by ufo View Post
      - what is considered an unacceptable number of retrains?
      - what is considered too high a number of error snapshots?

      And over what period of time is all of this being considered against?
      I don't know, as that's the system's job. If you want to read more about DLM:

      DSL Expresse Software - ASSIA

      Quote Originally Posted by ufo View Post
      The other issue is, it appears that DLM will set your connection to the lowest possible speed within a given range that it can handle (e.g. if your acceptable range is tested during that DLM process between 4.0 mb/s and 4.5 mb/s, it would still set it to 4.0mb/s because that's the lower of the 2 speeds).

      In that case, the more occasions that DLM kicks in the worse for my connection, as it hasn't got anywhere to go but downwards each time and this is my major concern.

      If it has to re-DLM again in the near future, it will probably test between 3.5mb/s and 4.0mb/s and since 3.5mb/s is the lowest acceptable, it would probably set it to that.
      As above, this is not how DLM works.

      Quote Originally Posted by ufo View Post
      I have never yet heard of anyone's connection going up through DLM, only downward sadly. It seems to be a rather flawed system.
      Well, you haven't seen many lines then. In my time with Sky, I've looked at / reprofiled / reconfigured (whatever term you want to use) hundreds upon hundreds of lines. DLM is not flawed - it's a system, and like all systems can make mistakes from time to time. In your case? The line is already uncapped. It's not DLM stopping you from going higher, it's noise on the line. Where has the noise came from? Anyones' guess. Don't take this in a rude way, but I can't be bothered to type about DLM any more, so if you choose to believe this advice or not, it's up to you.

    7. #36
      ufo's Avatar
      ufo
      ufo is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited
      Router: Sagem F@ST 2504
      Sky TV: Sky+
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Posts
      67
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

      Re: Speeds dropping on router reset and Speed seems to be stuck?

      Originally Posted by ufo
      I have never yet heard of anyone's connection going up through DLM, only downward sadly. It seems to be a rather flawed system.
      Quote Originally Posted by User05
      Well, you haven't seen many lines then. In my time with Sky, I've looked at / reprofiled / reconfigured (whatever term you want to use) hundreds upon hundreds of lines.
      Nope, I definitely haven't, but unfortunately I have seen probably the same amount of posts complaining about DLM across the web.

      Although you say you have "reprofiled/reconfigured" hundreds of lines, this can be done manually can it not and if so I am guessing what I need to request is a manual reconfiguration?


      Quote Originally Posted by User05
      At no point does it make 'decisions' that YOU need to reboot to take effect. It does everything.
      If I do not need to reboot, does it reboot for me? Or can it perform this change without a reset?


      Quote Originally Posted by User05
      You keep suggesting that you're capped, but if you were capped at 4mbps then your sync would not go higher than 4096kbps, which it does go higher. i.e. You are not capped at 4mbps.
      We are getting very specific with figures, but the amount it will not exceed is actually 4352 kbps no matter how much I try.

      Which I find odd, as on my initial reboots (hours after the power cut, at the time when noise level is best coincidentally) I could achieve 4418 kbps, but now it will go no higher than 4352 kbps no matter the time of day or night it was rebooted.

      There isn't much to be gained between 4352 and 4418 so this is no big deal, but it's the 4832 at least that I would like back.


      Quote Originally Posted by User05
      IT will try one new profile each day around the hours of 1am-6am.
      Is it possible to request a specific time you wish it to be run at each day?



      PS - As a side note, just tested my pings, they're awful.

      Over three tests, averages are coming back at 72ms, 78ms and 82ms.

      I remember previously they were coming back between 32ms - 42ms.
      Last edited by ufo; 30-07-11 at 06:17 PM.

    8. #37
      User05's Avatar
      User05 is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sagem F@ST 2504n
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Dec 2008
      Posts
      3,030
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 171 Times in 164 Posts

      Re: Speeds dropping on router reset and Speed seems to be stuck?

      Quote Originally Posted by ufo View Post
      Nope, I definitely haven't, but unfortunately I have seen probably the same amount of posts complaining about DLM across the web.

      Although you say you have "reprofiled/reconfigured" hundreds of lines, this can be done manually can it not and if so I am guessing what I need to request is a manual reconfiguration?
      That's what I mean when I say that I have reprofiled/configured lines, it's done manually by the advisor.

      Quote Originally Posted by ufo View Post
      If I do not need to reboot, does it reboot for me? Or can it perform this change without a reset?
      DLM does not reboot the router. It changes the line settings, known as a reprofile, and in doing so, this will end in a re-sync (the internet light will go off on the router and sync up again with the new settings).

      Quote Originally Posted by ufo View Post
      Is it possible to request a specific time you wish it to be run at each day?
      No.

      Look, assuming that you have ensured your internal wiring is fine, then that's all that can be done your end. I understand you asking these questions, but you're making it more complicated than it should be. If you're awaiting a call-back from CST, then just wait it out and have a chat with whoever calls you. If the line can't sync in at 4.8 again, I highly doubt it's enough of a drop to warrant a broadband engineer being booked.

    9. #38
      ufo's Avatar
      ufo
      ufo is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited
      Router: Sagem F@ST 2504
      Sky TV: Sky+
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Posts
      67
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

      Re: Speeds dropping on router reset and Speed seems to be stuck?

      Quote Originally Posted by User05
      DLM does not reboot the router. It changes the line settings, known as a reprofile, and in doing so, this will end in a re-sync (the internet light will go off on the router and sync up again with the new settings).
      When it does this, does/will the overall connected time in the statistics reset to 00:00 ?


      Quote Originally Posted by User05
      If you're awaiting a call-back from CST, then just wait it out and have a chat with whoever calls you. If the line can't sync in at 4.8 again, I highly doubt it's enough of a drop to warrant a broadband engineer being booked.
      That's pretty much what it's come to, but this discussion has helped my understanding about a lot of it so thanks for all the info.

      If it's a BT/Openreach engineer, I wouldn't be asking for one as I wouldn't want to run the risk of being charged, I have checked my own wiring and all internals and know there's nothing wrong and nothing has changed.

      Though if it's an actual Sky engineer maybe it may be an option....

      ...on this occasion there may have only been a drop of 0.5 mb/s, but over an extended period of time as mentioned, the drops have actually lost me between 2.5mb/s - 3.0mb/s in speed overall.

    10. #39
      User05's Avatar
      User05 is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sagem F@ST 2504n
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Dec 2008
      Posts
      3,030
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 171 Times in 164 Posts

      Re: Speeds dropping on router reset and Speed seems to be stuck?

      Quote Originally Posted by ufo View Post
      When it does this, does/will the overall connected time in the statistics reset to 00:00 ?
      Yep, WAN Uptime counter will reset.

      Quote Originally Posted by ufo View Post
      That's pretty much what it's come to, but this discussion has helped my understanding about a lot of it so thanks for all the info.

      If it's a BT/Openreach engineer, I wouldn't be asking for one as I wouldn't want to run the risk of being charged, I have checked my own wiring and all internals and know there's nothing wrong and nothing has changed.

      Though if it's an actual Sky engineer maybe it may be an option....

      ...on this occasion there may have only been a drop of 0.5 mb/s, but over an extended period of time as mentioned, the drops have actually lost me between 2.5mb/s - 3.0mb/s in speed overall.
      It would be an Openreach engineer, Sky engineers only deal with tv issues. If it shows that the line should be performing much higher than even 4.8mbps, then by all means, booking an appointment for an Openreach engineer would maybe be the best action. It isn't chargeable, assuming nothing is wrong on your end (144 otherwise).

    11. #40
      ufo's Avatar
      ufo
      ufo is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited
      Router: Sagem F@ST 2504
      Sky TV: Sky+
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Posts
      67
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

      Re: Speeds dropping on router reset and Speed seems to be stuck?

      Quote Originally Posted by User05 View Post
      It would be an Openreach engineer, Sky engineers only deal with tv issues. If it shows that the line should be performing much higher than even 4.8mbps, then by all means, booking an appointment for an Openreach engineer would maybe be the best action. It isn't chargeable, assuming nothing is wrong on your end (144 otherwise).
      I'll maybe pass on this one then, though a 2nd opinion may be helpful, please look at below for my thoughts on why...

      Quote Originally Posted by Isitme
      Although your set up has not changed, that does not mean the line back to the exchange has not. There are a lot of things that can cause this, a joint in a cabinet being 'not quite right', a difference in the ambient temperature causing movement of a joint, a manhole being flooded, there are too many reasons to list. Unless you have interference on your voice line, it is very unlikely anything can be done about it.
      I've all but given up on trying to achieve the original lost 2.0 - 2.5 mb/s back again (the amount that was lost prior to this incident I'm discussing now)...

      I always wondered if there was possibly deterioration in BT's lines from the exchange going into the house/local area, as we had 2 very bad previous winters (very heavy snowfalls for extended periods of time as I'm sure you remember) and around both previous winters that is when I seemed to have suffered the bigger of the speed drops.

      I also noticed that previous to the bad weather, the Line Attenuation was better (maybe only by 1 dB), but it has never improved one iota since. Each year since the bad weather has hit, it has went down 1 dB (so losing 3 dB over 3 years).

      I know my exchange hasn't moved, I'm still the same distance away from it so I don't know what else to put it down to.

      If this is the case, can BT/Openreach actually do anything about it anyway? Would I be charged if they were to investigate it?

      I tried questioning a Tier 1 and Tier 2 previously about this (weather angle) but they said no, weather had nothing whatsoever to do with how good or bad your connection was nor would it have any affect on the wiring/exchanges etc.

     

     
    Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

    Tags for this Thread

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •  
    SkyUser - Copyright © 2006-2017. SatDish and NewsreadeR | SkyUser is in no way affiliated with Sky Broadband / BSkyB
    RIPA NOTICE: NO CONSENT IS GIVEN FOR INTERCEPTION OF PAGE TRANSMISSION