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    Slow Speeds - New Router?

    This is a discussion on Slow Speeds - New Router? within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Originally Posted by Isitme As Scubbie and I suggest. Disconnect the alternate socket from the junction box and try the ...

    1. #61
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      Re: Slow Speeds - New Router?

      Quote Originally Posted by Isitme View Post
      As Scubbie and I suggest. Disconnect the alternate socket from the junction box and try the main Test socket. If there is still no improvement then it is an external fault so you will have to keep pressing Sky to get it fixed.
      The biggest issue I can get around is sky saying my line supports a maximum of 6.5Mb/s and since I am getting ~5.5Mb/s, sky say there is nothing wrong, so refuse to send any engineers.

      I have done all you have suggested, but there was no real change that is why I want to keep the alternate socket active for ease of use.


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    3. #62
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      Re: Slow Speeds - New Router?

      You say that there was no real change. I appreciate that this thread is getting long now, but what were the stats with just the one socket wired in & with the router connected through the test socket?

      It may be that whoever done the bodged DIY job on your line has also bodged your connection. Please remember that ADSL does require a better line quality than voice only telephone lines.

      I also very much appreciate that you not only want the best connection speed out of your line, you also want something that is useful.

      The time that you have spent going through what has been asked of you in this thread, and your responses, indicates that you are a patient man.

      Another suggestion that I have would be for you to consider wiring a NTE5 Master socket to where the split occurs. It is possible that the wiring to your master socket has been compromised.

      Regard this suggestion with extreme caution though. Whilst the ampage might be relatively low compared to the back of an old TV set, both AC & DC power are sent down the telephone line at different times. It is DC that is the most dangerous of these two. When the phone is on-hook, 50vDC is on the line.

      I've long ago forgotten all the details, but this link will help somewhat:

      Using BT Telephones for a private communication system

      I'm trying to recall, but I think it used to be BT engineers who were banned from working on anything that was over 20vDC & live. In the mean time one piece of kit I worked on had a component which was 240vDC.

      Thick rubber gloves will help protect you, but be very careful as you cannot disconnect the source of the power.

      Whilst it is the AMPs that can kill a person, DC helps you to stick to the live wires.

      It is for all the above reasons for BT introducing the split cover on the NTE5 socket, as well as for isolating any extensions within the premises.

      UK Telephone Extension Wiring

      Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro: Connected at 80,000 kbps / 20,000 kbps
      Previous ADSL2+ Speed 19999 kbps 1153 kbps, Line Attenuation 17.5 db 6.9 db, Noise Margin 7.5 dB 8.7 dB
      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

    4. #63
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      Re: Slow Speeds - New Router?

      The stats without alternate socket:

      Connection Speed 5614 kbps 496 kbps
      Line Attenuation 27.0 db 17.5 db
      Noise Margin 7.0 db 8.5 db

      Ther noise margin hasnt really changed so the speed cannot really improve. After studying the junction box, I can give you a better idea of how the house is wired.

      1) A pair of twisted copper cables (typical electrical cable) come into the house and connects to the junction box, each carrying one signal (A/B).

      2) At the other end of the junction box (2x) BT CW1308 telephone cables exit. One leads to the original master socket, the other goes to the alternate socket.

      3) The BT CW1308 cable leading to the sockets have 2 pairs/4 cores. The blue/white pair are twisted together and carry one signal (A), and the orange/white pair are twisted together and carry the other signal (B).

      4) the twisted pair connect to the master socket as they should, there are no extensions leading off either socket.

      This picture may help:



      Anyway after talking to sky, yet again, the technician ran a test and said it was a pass but he was going to send out an engineer to the exchange to look at it. The engineer may, if thinks it is necessary come over to the house. If he does can I ask him to sort out my cabling mess, and relocate the master socket to the one closest to the router. If so would he charge me for this?

      Also what do you mean by "phone is on-hook", i have touched the core cables multiple times without any shock. I didn't realise it was so dangerous!
      Last edited by KACE; 13-02-11 at 11:52 PM.

    5. #64
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      Re: Slow Speeds - New Router?

      Quote Originally Posted by KACE View Post
      The stats without alternate socket:

      Connection Speed 5614 kbps 496 kbps
      Line Attenuation 27.0 db 17.5 db
      Noise Margin 7.0 db 8.5 db
      The Line Attenuation has decreased, whilst the noise margins have remained similar. Would it be possible to leave you router connected like this for a few days? This is of course without the extension lead.

      If there is no change, it might be worth getting DLM to be run again. Others might wish to comment on this statement as to whether I'm reading this correctly.

      Quote Originally Posted by KACE View Post
      Anyway after talking to sky, yet again, the technician ran a test and said it was a pass but he was going to send out an engineer to the exchange to look at it. The engineer may, if thinks it is necessary come over to the house. If he does can I ask him to sort out my cabling mess, and relocate the master socket to the one closest to the router. If so would he charge me for this?
      You may well be charged for the call out. I would be inclined to rip out the bodged extension and either get a Wireless telephone handset or two, or fit a new one that runs from the master socket.

      Quote Originally Posted by KACE View Post
      Also what do you mean by "phone is on-hook", i have touched the core cables multiple times without any shock. I didn't realise it was so dangerous!
      'On-hook' is when your telephone is on the receiver (i.e. not in use, but plugged in.

      Thankfully you've been lucky. I needed to let you know about the voltages for my own peace of mind though. I'd hate for anyone to be shocked for a simple error on my behalf.

      If you had grounded yourself or shorted two of the contacts, then you would certainly know about it. Remember DC would cause you to stick to the line, whilst with AC you can let go in many cases.

      Annoyingly I can't recall all the voltages that the telephone goes through in each of it's different states (i.e. ringing, when talking & on-hook), that's why I provided the link. It's a few years since I worked on Fax machines and was shown this. Since it wasn't really used in my work, I simply forgot it all. However I am aware that at different states there is either AC or DC.

      Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro: Connected at 80,000 kbps / 20,000 kbps
      Previous ADSL2+ Speed 19999 kbps 1153 kbps, Line Attenuation 17.5 db 6.9 db, Noise Margin 7.5 dB 8.7 dB
      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

    6. #65
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      Re: Slow Speeds - New Router?

      Quote Originally Posted by KACE View Post
      1) A pair of twisted copper cables (typical electrical cable) come into the house and connects to the junction box, each carrying one signal (A/B).
      Where does this cable come from?
      Is it 'figure of eight'/'shotgun' type cable?
      An in focus picture of the junction box would be useful.

      3) The BT CW1308 cable leading to the sockets have 2 pairs/4 cores. The blue/white pair are twisted together and carry one signal (A), and the orange/white pair are twisted together and carry the other signal (B).
      This is wrong.
      The blue/white and white/blue cores only should be used.
      The orange pair should not be connected.

      Also what do you mean by "phone is on-hook", i have touched the core cables multiple times without any shock. I didn't realise it was so dangerous!
      On hook = phone not in use.
      It come from the earliest telephones which had a separate receiver which you hung on a hook which operated a switch to disconnect the call.

      While it is wise to be cautious Scubbie overstates the dangers.

      With the phone on the hook there is 50v between the cores which drops when you pick up the receiver.

      The ringing current used to be 75v 16 2/3 Hz from memory but with modern exchanges may have changed.

      Andy

    7. #66
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      Re: Slow Speeds - New Router?

      Reply to Andy's Qu's:

      1) From the pole outside, a cable runs across the street to the top of my house, then a 'figure of eight' cable runs from the top of the house to the junction box downstairs.

      2) I'll try an get a pic when I get home

      3) From looking at the junction box, It seems that the blue/white and orange/white cores are used merely as an extension for the primary cable pair, and not necessarily how they were meant to be used.

      When the engineer comes round I try and get him to rewire the house

    8. #67
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      Re: Slow Speeds - New Router?

      The issue here is that although THEORY would suggest more speed can be had the line just might not give any more. You might have a part aluminium line which will greatly hinder the speeds achievable on the line
      -------------------------------------------



      Useful Sticky: - How To Obtain Your Router Stats, BT Speed Test, Check For Test Socket

    9. #68
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      Re: Slow Speeds - New Router?

      Just one other point. Is the junction box simply a junction or is it an RF box. If it is the latter check that it is an RF3. If it is an RF2 it can badly effect the broadband as it filters out the higher frequencies on the line..

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.





    10. #69
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      Re: Slow Speeds - New Router?

      Quote Originally Posted by Isitme View Post
      Just one other point. Is the junction box simply a junction or is it an RF box. If it is the latter check that it is an RF3. If it is an RF2 it can badly effect the broadband as it filters out the higher frequencies on the line..
      I not sure what an RF box is, but this one is not so complicated, this is a picture of my junction box. Also I would have expected BT to lay the same if not similar cables throughout the local area?



      Uploaded with ImageShack.us

    11. #70
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      Re: Slow Speeds - New Router?

      That's just a standard junction box. An RF box is a radio frequency filter.

      I am surprised it works as the solid colour wires to the alternate socket seem to be connected to a dead end. If I were you I would unravel the wires and connect the blue wires only to the out puts going to your master socket. See if that makes any difference. Then disconnect the wires going to one of the sockets and try the other one.

      It is a bit difficult to tell but it looks like your incoming wires are of the electrical type, not what you would expect to find on a telephone circuit. They may be the old twin GPO copper wires which have been replaced by twisted pair wire in most modern situations. Maybe you need to get BTO in to upgrade your connection from the pole to your master socket. That could make a big difference to your connection.

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.





     

     
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