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    Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss

    This is a discussion on Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Hi all, after some advice I recieved here, i managed to stabilise noise on my line by rewiring my master ...

    1. #1
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      Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss

      Hi all,

      after some advice I recieved here, i managed to stabilise noise on my line by rewiring my master socket and putting on an ADSL faceplate. I got my downstream noise margin stable at 12db, whereas before it was fluctuating between 0db and billions of decibels!

      Everything was fine fior about 3 weeks, with a npise margin of 12bg, a line attenuation of 42bd and downstream 6.7MB.

      Tonight I came home to find that web pages (inclusing sky.com) were loading very slowly or not at all. I checked my stats and realised my noise margin had changed to 3db. A call to Sky and a few line tests, they messed around with my profile and now I am syched at 6.1MB with a noise margin of 11db, but packet loss is intermittent (tested by pinging, google, sky and cnn). Just now i had packed loss of 100% to 25%. I rebooted and the router synched at the same speed (6.1MB) and noise margin was the same as before (11db) but packet loss was fixed.

      There is obviously still something wrong with my connection and I am at a loss as to what because nothing has changed! Sky are not aware of any changes to the condition of my line or my connection.

      I know this is a bit of a long shot but has anyone got any ideas?

      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 6138 kbps 764 kbps
      Line Attenuation 42 db 24 db
      Noise Margin 9 db 16

      cheers
      Last edited by reverend; 10-07-10 at 10:22 PM. Reason: added stats


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    3. #2
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      Re: Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss

      It could be your router, but just to be on the safe side recheck all your wiring and make sure that the incoming line into the back of your master socket is securely fixed. Incidentally a noise margin of 12db is quite high and indicates that you really should be getting some more speed (sky's target is 6.9db which unless you have a very poor line should be fine)

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    4. #3
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      Re: Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss

      Thanks very much simonmpoulton,

      I have tightened up the wiring to the back of the master socket and also replaced the cable from the socket to the router, and the cat5 cable to my PC. The result is that right now my stats are a little better:

      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 6138 kbps 764 kbps
      Line Attenuation 42 db 24 db
      Noise Margin 14 db 16 db

      Tightening up the wires reminded me that there might be something wrong wtih my NTE5 master socket: If I plug my phone or a microfilter directly into the test socket, I get no dial tone. When I plug my ADSL nation filter in, I do get a dial tone. So I have decided to replace the NTE5 with one from ebay.

      I am also reminded that I have lost the screw pins for my ADSL Nation faceplate, so it might be worth me getting some replacement pins rather than rely on tape to keep it in place !

      EDIT: Actually the noise margin is fluctuating between 10db and 14db. I guess the fact that it is fluctuating all the time is not good. The upstream noise margin is stable at 16db and it does not seem to fluctuate at all.
      Last edited by reverend; 11-07-10 at 08:50 AM. Reason: added fluctuation comment

    5. #4
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      Re: Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss

      It's quite normal to get a fluctuation throughout the day although it's only usually 2db fluctuation, that said 4db isnt exceedingly high.
      Just to confirm if your test socket doesnt seem to work when you remove the faceplate are all your other sockets in the house dead? Additionally when the ADSL faceplate is not pushed in do you have a dial tone from the socket on that? If you do then something is afoot with the wiring and you'll need to trace it back and make sure everything is connected via the master socket and that the NTE5 is the first thing on the phone line.

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    6. #5
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      Re: Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss

      Thanks,

      Actually I have removed all other wiring. The only wires in the master socket are the ones that come into the property (from a cupboard in the corridor), which are wired directly to the A and B points on the back of the socket.

      If I pull away the ADSL faceplate, then the dial tone disappeares. If i plug my phone directly into the test socket, I get no dial tone. Looking inside the test socket, one of the pins seems to be aligned slightly differently to the other pins. Now maybe this makes no difference, but maybe it is not connecting cleanly to everything that is plugged into it.

      When I rewired the master socket and put the faceplate on, I discovered that it had been wired up incorrectly: the cable coming into the property was wired up to the 2 and 5 slots on the front, and the extension was connected up to the A&B on the back! I am not sure if the builder did this or BT when they visited a few weeks ago to fix a line fault. When I discovered this, I decided to do away with the extension as I don't really need it and I wanted to eliminate all sourced of noise that might affect my broadband.

      I am still getting packet loss sporadically. I will replace the NTE5 and see how that goes before I call Sky back.

      It is pretty annoying I must admit. The property is newly built and I am surprised that I am having telcoms problems, and that I get such low speeds (i am only 1.7km from the exchange) I lived in my last place for 4 years and had completely trouble free Sky broadband throughout.

      Thanks for your help, it is much appreciated!

    7. #6
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      Re: Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss

      The builders dont fit NTE5's only BT have access to them for fitting. It will have been done by a BT engineer who was confused which cable goes to the extensions and which to the main line. Most of the time they check properly though!
      If your test socket isnt working properly then in all probability it'll be making poor contact with the faceplate (the same socket is used to supply the faceplate) so replacing the NTE5 is a good step to take, once you've done that you hopefully will not have problems - before you replace it ensure you get suitable screws for the faceplate as having it taped may well have damaged the test socket in the first place!

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      Re: Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss

      thanks simonmpoulton,

      For good measure I have ordered a new faceplate from Tamar.

      I will report back results once I have replaced the master socket and faceplate.

    9. #8
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      Re: Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss

      Quote Originally Posted by simonmpoulton View Post
      The builders dont fit NTE5's only BT have access to them for fitting. It will have been done by a BT engineer who was confused which cable goes to the extensions and which to the main line. Most of the time they check properly though!
      If your test socket isnt working properly then in all probability it'll be making poor contact with the faceplate (the same socket is used to supply the faceplate) so replacing the NTE5 is a good step to take, once you've done that you hopefully will not have problems - before you replace it ensure you get suitable screws for the faceplate as having it taped may well have damaged the test socket in the first place!
      Only BT Openreach have access to NTE5's with a logo, anyone can get the exact same socket minus the logo. There isn't a BT engineer in the land who would wire an NTE5 incorrectly!

      BTW if this is a new build then you may have an external NTE and the builders have fitted an NTE5 as your first socket.
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    10. #9
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      Re: Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss

      Quote Originally Posted by RUNITDIRECT View Post
      Only BT Openreach have access to NTE5's with a logo, anyone can get the exact same socket minus the logo. There isn't a BT engineer in the land who would wire an NTE5 incorrectly!

      BTW if this is a new build then you may have an external NTE and the builders have fitted an NTE5 as your first socket.
      It is a new build. I know that there is something in the cupboard outsite my door, but i have not been able to look inside it. My master socket is an NTE5 with a BT logo on it.
      when BT came out to look at a dail tone fault, the engineer said he was confused by the wiring and that the installation had not been done in the normal way. He did get the master socket working, but left in a hurry saying he had an urgent hospital appointment. Given the rush he was in and the confusion, I suppose there is a possibility that he made a mistake, took a short cut, or left the master socket as he found it, wired up incorrectly by whoever did the original install.

    11. #10
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      Re: Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss

      Right,
      I have now replaced my NTE5. RJ11 and RJ45, using the same ADSL nation filter. Here are my before and after stats. They are virtually the same, bit higher noise margin. The big test will be on stability though. So far I seem to be getting a noise fluctuation of 15db - 17db, so i will let you know if that holds up.

      If this remains stable, do you guys think I can ask Sky to adjust my speed profile?

      cheers for all your help

      rev
      Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss-before.jpg   Noise Margin suddenly dropped, 25% packet loss-after.jpg  
      Last edited by reverend; 17-07-10 at 09:51 AM. Reason: added speed.io link

     

     
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