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    Noise Margin problems

    This is a discussion on Noise Margin problems within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Hi all, Up until September I have been delighted with SkyBB after getting my max_delays reduced and was getting very ...

    1. #1
      SirStuie's Avatar
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      Noise Margin problems

      Hi all,

      Up until September I have been delighted with SkyBB after getting my max_delays reduced and was getting very near the full bandwidth of the max package 15### down and 768 up.

      Now my trouble began when the Unlimited package was release and I was still getting he same speed despite the MySky page saying that I had been upgraded to 20mb Unlimited. I used the online support form to request that my speed be uped, believing that perhaps they had been 'fixed' when I asked for max_delays to be reduced.

      My current stats are below:

      Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
      WAN PPPoA 15831022 17930120 0 12253 6902 97:15:04
      LAN 10M/100M 1941100 1058606 0 5904 288 97:16:32
      WLAN 11M/54M 16147035 14855752 0 1841 405 97:16:24

      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 16296 kbps 970 kbps
      Line Attenuation 18.5 db 9.7 db
      Noise Margin 5.1 db 8.5 db

      The upgrade has resulted in a slight downstream increase and a decent up increase (however I believe my stats should allow near the max available).

      However my problem is that the noise margin will often drop to between 0.1 and 2 at which the internet becomes unusable. However my connection will not completely drop and the uptime will easily get into the 120 hour range.

      The duration of these outages ranged from 1 minute to 20 and occurs throughout the day and night even when the test socket is used.
      The online form has been of little help as the problem is intermittent and over the phone I cannot get past the 1st stage as its working when I ring and I will not keep repeating the test socket bs.

      This has been going on for over a month now.
      Any help/advice/recommendations would be most welcome.
      Thx.


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    3. #2
      Isitme's Avatar
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      Re: Noise Margin problems

      I know you say your stats are the same in the Test socket, but can you plug into it and post your stats from there.

      Can you also confirm that you are not using a tool such as DMT to artificially reduce your noise margin. A drop of 0.1 or 2 should make no difference to your speed.

      Can you also state whether you are using a wired or wireless connection?

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.





    4. #3
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      Re: Noise Margin problems

      I think he means the SNR will drop to between 0.1 and 2db, not a drop of 0.1 to 2db which is causing the connection to slow.

    5. #4
      Isitme's Avatar
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      Re: Noise Margin problems

      Having read it again, I think you are correct. The router is holding the connection too well, rebooting when it is low should stabilise it.

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.





    6. #5
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      Re: Noise Margin problems

      Wow thanks for the fast replies, here are the stats from the test socket using a wireless g connection.

      Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
      WAN PPPoA 421 495 0 382 729 00:04:58
      LAN 10M/100M 169 0 0 108 0 00:06:29
      WLAN 11M/54M 1288 1080 0 1456 528 00:06:21

      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 17471 kbps 992 kbps
      Line Attenuation 18.0 db 9.7 db
      Noise Margin 5.4 db 8.0 db

      and yes I do mean that the downstream noise margin has dropped to between 0.1 and 2db when I check the stats after the internet stops working, sometimes it happens once a day, sometimes once an hour.

      I have no idea what DMT is or if I am using it or not

      Rebooting the router does fix the problem.

      The funny thing is that it does just appear to be the noise margin that is the problem, the connection status still reads success, I still have sync speeds and the router light is green instead of yellow. (sorry if Im using the wrong terms here)

      Sky claim to make adjustment when I use the ?Kudo? form but the drops still occur and I cannot get past the 1st bloody hellspawn I speak to over the phone as everything is working fine during the call.

      Thanks again.

    7. #6
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      Re: Noise Margin problems

      Download and run Routerstats Lite - Internet Software over a period of a few days and you should be able to spot a pattern of when your SNR margin starts to drop and by how much. You may well be suffering from a REIN issue.

    8. #7
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      Re: Noise Margin problems

      You may benifit from a filtered faceplate.

    9. #8
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      Re: Noise Margin problems

      Quote Originally Posted by SirStuie View Post
      Sky claim to make adjustment when I use the ?Kudo? form but the drops still occur and I cannot get past the 1st bloody hellspawn I speak to over the phone as everything is working fine during the call.
      Assuming the following are correct (if not, fix and re-post the stats):

      - You've tried a new filter whilst in the test socket and;
      - You're in the test socket with the following set-up

      test socket > microfilter > phone line & ADSL cable (sky supplied light grey ADSL cable - no extension cables)

      Then you're going to need to call up sky [08442 410515], get to the 'first bloody hellspawn' ( ) and tell them that you are having intermittent sync issues whilst in your test socket with a new filter attached and using no extension cables in the set-up. You may be asked a few further questions, but will be ultimately passed to the customer solutions team who can run further diagnostics to check where the problem lies.

    10. #9
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      Re: Noise Margin problems

      The problem is that the connection is not dropping as it should when the noise margin drops too low. Previous to being plugged into the Test socket the WAN had not dropped for over 4 days. Assuming that it resynced at the default of 6.9dbs, it has dropped 1.5dbs in the 4 minutes it has been running. It could be a fault on the line which is causing the margin to drop, but if it is, it should disconnect when it drops too far, which it is not doing. From this I think a faulty router should be the first suspect, although failing to drop out is a strange fault.

      No doubt Sky will use their favourite trick of capping the speed in the hope that the fault will be disguised, rather than fixing the problem. Possibly they will put it back on DLM training which will fob the OP off for another 10 days.

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.





    11. #10
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      Re: Noise Margin problems

      Well it was an epic battle of wits. Me armed with only words and phrases learned from this forum, and the she-devil on the other end of the phone armed with a dodgy phone line, mystery accent and incompetence.

      After a grueling 15 minutes I lost my temper with the demon and was promptly put through to CST.
      This somewhat decent chap was actually quite helpful after initially trying to fob me off which I did not accept this time.

      Now my stats are even from my extension:
      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 15618 kbps 984 kbps
      Line Attenuation 18.5 db 9.6 db
      Noise Margin 6.7 db 7.0 db

      While the speed may be far from the 20mb/1.3 up, the Noise margin has been steady and there has been no drops for over 10 hours which is a vast improvement.

      Btw apparently the issue was something relating to the speed upgrade in September.

      Thanks again for all the advice.

     

     
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