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    Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

    This is a discussion on Disconnects 'n Speed Issues? within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Originally Posted by Brian69 Now the next visit will be for a specific problem (your SNRM changes). A D/E side ...

    1. #31
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Quote Originally Posted by Brian69 View Post
      Now the next visit will be for a specific problem (your SNRM changes). A D/E side swap concerns your line back to the exchange, and changing the line pair which form it. Unable to explain why your master (did he fit a filter faceplate,or offer to?) should have a worse performance.
      With regards to the filter faceplate, is this to filter the bell ring or something like that (recall him mention this?). Or is the filter faceplate supose to mean that microfilters are no longer required on the master socket or any other extension socket? In this case the answer would be no, cos i've still got microfilters on each socket.

      Regarding the D/E side swap.....Is that 2 lines i.e. the D part is the line from your property to the cabinet; while the E part is the line from the cabinet to the exchange?

      1) Is the likely they'll change both D and E parts....or are you likely to change E instead of D or vice versa?
      2) I'd assume there's normally alot of free lines available for D and E parts?
      3) Is there a way to verify the quality of these types of lines in comparision to the ones you are currently on (in terms of noise - SNR?)
      4) What other types of checks would the engineer look into with regards to SNR issues?

      To be honest, Sky initially raised a call for an engineer due to the strange fluctuations in SNR. So i would have expected some further investigation during this first visit?


      Lastly, can you comment on my symptoms when my connection drops i.e. synced at 11meg, connection drops and subsequent resyncs are between 1-3 meg only; regardless on how many times i reboot the router. Only after a period of time (serveral hours) can i then resync back to the regular speeds i.e. 10+meg????
      Whats that all about? As no one has been able to explain why this happens? Surely this is not normal.....


      Thanks


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    3. #32
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Morning.
      Filter faceplates provide a connection to the router and filter all your internal wiring, so you would not need any micro-filters, and this provides the best connection. I sounds like the Openreach guy was talking about a BT I-plate, which just filters the ring line .
      When It comes to E and D lines, they are in fact the same thing. Depending on where you view the phone line, one side will be connected to the E (exchange) side and the other to the D (distribution) side, so if you were in an exchange at the main distribution frame, all the lines going out would be D side, but all the lines from the other side of the frame going into the exchange would be E side. In your case E side refers to the exchange side in a street cab and D side is the line from the cab to you.
      There may or may not be a lot of spare/free lines, it depends on the number in there and on the number of lines to customers from the cab.
      When it comes to fault finding, the Openreach guy will have a peice of kit called a TDR (time display reflectometer called a hawk or sometimes a mole)
      this sends a signal down the line and the reflected signal back is used to locate a fault in the line. If your line is faulty, and there are spare ones, then the easy way is to swap your line over to a good one.

      I cannot comment on your SNR swings, other than to say it sounds like a line fault may be the cause,

    4. #33
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Quote Originally Posted by Brian69 View Post
      Morning.
      Filter faceplates provide a connection to the router and filter all your internal wiring, so you would not need any micro-filters, and this provides the best connection. I sounds like the Openreach guy was talking about a BT I-plate, which just filters the ring line .
      When It comes to E and D lines, they are in fact the same thing. Depending on where you view the phone line, one side will be connected to the E (exchange) side and the other to the D (distribution) side, so if you were in an exchange at the main distribution frame, all the lines going out would be D side, but all the lines from the other side of the frame going into the exchange would be E side. In your case E side refers to the exchange side in a street cab and D side is the line from the cab to you.
      There may or may not be a lot of spare/free lines, it depends on the number in there and on the number of lines to customers from the cab.
      When it comes to fault finding, the Openreach guy will have a peice of kit called a TDR (time display reflectometer called a hawk or sometimes a mole)
      this sends a signal down the line and the reflected signal back is used to locate a fault in the line. If your line is faulty, and there are spare ones, then the easy way is to swap your line over to a good one.

      I cannot comment on your SNR swings, other than to say it sounds like a line fault may be the cause,
      With regards to the TDR...does he connect this to an actual phone socket?
      Or is this somethnig he connects up within the cabinet? I recall he had a yellow phone like device that he connected to the phone socket to test the line?
      Wonder if this is the same thing that your talking about - TDR?

      i'm also on the impression that the line is at fault in someway? As i wouldnt expect pretty constant flucuations every so often across the day. Some of which are showing drops of 7db....before they climb back up and then repeat again.
      And at some stages the drop has been so bad (i.e. negative) that my connection is shot. I have image snapshots of the SNR across the day as proof.

      Obviously this does not sound rite. But don't get me wrong, there are certain times where the line is fine and the snr is pretty stable all the way thru i.e. stable at 7db. So my only concern would be when the line is stable and fine, i'd be guessing the engineer would not see anything wrong......or would you think otherwise?
      As the blasted thing only started causing issues (drops) after the enigneer left.

      Finally, assuming there is no free lines available....does that mean i'm screwed?

    5. #34
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      If there are no free lines for a swap, then the fault will have to be found on your line and repaired, The yellow thing is a TDR, but it can be used at any point on the line. All your symptoms point ot a line fault, i had a similar problem with my own line some years ago,(not only noise margin problems but disconnections as well) I took a days holiday to repair it, like yours mine would only put in an apperance now and again and it turned out to be a poor joint which responded to vibration from road traffic.
      The point of this is that if there is not a free line they can take a while to fix so hope that there is

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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Quote Originally Posted by Brian69 View Post
      If there are no free lines for a swap, then the fault will have to be found on your line and repaired, The yellow thing is a TDR, but it can be used at any point on the line. All your symptoms point ot a line fault, i had a similar problem with my own line some years ago,(not only noise margin problems but disconnections as well) I took a days holiday to repair it, like yours mine would only put in an apperance now and again and it turned out to be a poor joint which responded to vibration from road traffic.
      The point of this is that if there is not a free line they can take a while to fix so hope that there is
      I'm assuming that the line fault is the part where bt can swap, change or repair I.e cabinet lines, lines at exchange etc
      And not wiring line that runs within my flat? As fixing lines in the flat would be a nightmare?

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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      The fault could be anywhere on your line, but once they get going it is possible to isolate where the fault is. If it appears that it is in a part of the wiring which Openreach does not have access to (this would include the wiring in the common parts of a block of flats, or any distribution panels which may be in the freeholders area) then they would let the freeholder know.

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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Quote Originally Posted by Brian69 View Post
      The fault could be anywhere on your line, but once they get going it is possible to isolate where the fault is. If it appears that it is in a part of the wiring which Openreach does not have access to (this would include the wiring in the common parts of a block of flats, or any distribution panels which may be in the freeholders area) then they would let the freeholder know.
      I guess the big issue is how they isolate n track the fault in first place when it's intermittent? When they r called out I belive they only have a 2hr window to diagnose the fault......chances r it may be fine at that point.

      Thanks 4 u advise on the matter....will keep u updated

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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Sky called and a BT engineer has been arranged for tommorrow with some specific tests.

      1) They've asked the engineer to replace the master socket with a pre-filtered socket.

      2) They've asked that a RF3 thingme be fitted

      3) THey've asked that the engineer check out the cabinet...and perform a pair swap.....not sure if it'll be both D/E or just one (depending on availability and condition/performance of the lines).

      4) They've mentioned about doing some REIN testing as well.....so i believe this may be a specific type of engineer and not your standard engineer.


      As of last night and this morning i had tried a few things.

      1) As mentioned previously but i've retried again; when the router is conneced to the main master the best speed is about 9.7-10meg. In comparision to the extensions, its getting better at 11-12meg

      2) Connected up to the test socket on the main master this morning and got the following figures!
      Connection Speed 14942 kbps 766 kbps
      Line Attenuation 33 db 18 db
      Noise Margin 7 db 17 db

      3) I was sycned at 13meg on the extension yesterday morning and it dropped around the afternoon 12pm. After syncin back, it was sitting at 4meg.....this lasted the whole of last night as it would not sync any faster (multiple reboots)?
      I tried swapping the router out onto the other extensions and also the master socket.....all give same results - sync at 2-4meg.
      What's weird is when i connect it up to the test socket of the main master....it syncs at 9meg? Then back onto the extensions and i get 4meg....
      My concern is if the issue lies with the extensions in some way?
      The inability of syncin faster after a connection drop is strange.....and there was no major fluctuation in noise at this time i.e. stable at 7-8db
      Obviously the next morning everything is fine again, as i'm able to sync faster?


      Just wondering what's your thoughts on my above observations so far.....and the work/testing that Sky have requested?

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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      The RF3 filter is prob a waste of time, the filter faceplate is a good idea, The pair swap if required and if possible will prob cure this. These tests are typical of what a BB engineer would carry out, but Sky cannot know what the problem is, so it will be up to Openreach to decide how to cure this problem. At this distance it is impossible for me to give anything but general observations, but IMO the problem is a poor connection somewhere on your line.

    11. #40
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Quote Originally Posted by Brian69 View Post
      The RF3 filter is prob a waste of time, the filter faceplate is a good idea, The pair swap if required and if possible will prob cure this. These tests are typical of what a BB engineer would carry out, but Sky cannot know what the problem is, so it will be up to Openreach to decide how to cure this problem. At this distance it is impossible for me to give anything but general observations, but IMO the problem is a poor connection somewhere on your line.
      3) I was sycned at 13meg on the extension yesterday morning and it dropped around the afternoon 12pm. After syncin back, it was sitting at 4meg.....this lasted the whole of last night as it would not sync any faster (multiple reboots)?
      I tried swapping the router out onto the other extensions and also the master socket.....all give same results - sync at 2-4meg.
      What's weird is when i connect it up to the test socket of the main master....it syncs at 9meg? Then back onto the extensions and i get 4meg....
      My concern is if the issue lies with the extensions in some way?
      The inability of syncin faster after a connection drop is strange.....and there was no major fluctuation in noise at this time i.e. stable at 7-8db
      Obviously the next morning everything is fine again, as i'm able to sync faster?
      Based on my comments for point (3) above. Do these symptoms and observations not suggest potential issue with internal wiring amongst the extensions.....or could it still be possiblity that external factors may cause the same results as i see?
      Hence, as you say, doing a pair swap may just resolve it....?

      With regards to REIN testing as mentioned by Sky, do you know what is likely to be involved with this?

      Again you've been very helpful, so thanks....and sorry for the long posts and questions.

      Cheers,
      Hung

     

     
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