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    Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

    This is a discussion on Disconnects 'n Speed Issues? within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Continue monitoring your Noise Margin, it is possible the sharp drop was down to the router. If you don't get ...

    1. #101
      Isitme's Avatar
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Continue monitoring your Noise Margin, it is possible the sharp drop was down to the router. If you don't get it with this one that will more or less confirm it.

      Your stats look pretty good, excellent for your attenuation. If the noise margin drops you will see a rise in the errors rate, but at the moment they are OK .

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.






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    3. #102
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Afriad the noise started to drop quite sharply with this router too.....around 22:00-22:30, from 7.5db all the way towards 0db.....evetually hovered around 0.3db....but the connection was already gone.

      What i can't understand is that its unable to reinitalise the connection.....keeps going thru "waiting for LCP to come up" repeatly within the logs.
      In the end i had to force a manual reboot, which has resync on:

      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 8596 kbps 942 kbps
      Line Attenuation 34.5 db 17.4 db
      Noise Margin 7.1 db 8.5 db

      Seems to stay in this weird capped speed mode even if i reboot it further......seems to only retain it previous speeds (15meg) once the SNR comes back up after a period of time.

      Any idea why this is?

    4. #103
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      That is a pity, at least it rules out a router fault. The speed/noise margin you are reconnecting at indicates a drop in the noise margin of something in the order of 20dbs. I don't think there is any doubt there is a serious intermittent fault in your line. Did you happen to try your phone when the drop occurred? You might find that it too was unusable. If it was normal, ie, working with no noise it may indicate a faulty card in the exchange. Try it next time you drop out.

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.





    5. #104
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Quote Originally Posted by Isitme View Post
      That is a pity, at least it rules out a router fault. The speed/noise margin you are reconnecting at indicates a drop in the noise margin of something in the order of 20dbs. I don't think there is any doubt there is a serious intermittent fault in your line. Did you happen to try your phone when the drop occurred? You might find that it too was unusable. If it was normal, ie, working with no noise it may indicate a faulty card in the exchange. Try it next time you drop out.
      I did check for any noise on the phone when the drops occurred i.e. phoning 17070 and option 2 for clear noise test....there was no issues. The line was clear and no crackly sounds etc.
      Not sure about the faulty card in the exchange, as Sky did some sort of shift for me to rules things out i.e. moved me to another card and port.

      I'm now back onto the original Sky router with the following stats, uptime so far is almost 11hours. Still noticed some large fluctuations but still within margin to hold the connection so far.

      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 15292 kbps 1022 kbps
      Line Attenuation 32 db 8.5 db
      Noise Margin 9 db 10 db


      If i get another drop i'll just ask them to cap things down to about 13-14meg and see how i get on. Again, then it'll be 11-12meg and see again.
      I hope it doesn't need to go any less than 11meg as this is what i originally got without any issues for 4 years.

    6. #105
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Its been a while, and now i've been capped to 13Meg.
      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 13203 kbps 1022 kbps
      Line Attenuation 32 db 18 db
      Noise Margin 13 db 9 db

      I've done some changes but not sure if they have helped much:
      1) Replaced the NTE-2000 faceplate with a XTE-2005 AdslNation
      2) Taken out all extensions from the faceplate
      3) I've taken my cordless phone out of the equation, as i noticed that during its use it appeared to corolate to exact times when SNR was fluctuating in routerstats (falling when used, and increased back to normal after ending call).
      However, only noticed it once and was not able to replicate....but i've taken the phone out just in case.
      4) Now using my original netgear V2 Sky router that contains the latest firmware
      (V2.02.44); did bother using the replacement netgear V2 router as after a week or so, still hasn't updated to the latest firmware.
      The only change i notice was that the Line Attenuation for the upstream is 18db for my original router, and 8.5db for the replacement.

      But unfortunately, have still noticed the intermittent SNR issues causing sudden drops in the line! A recent example of a fall sudden fall from SNR 13db to 0 when sync'd at 13M.




      The issue SNR/drop appeared again yesterday, and since then it was locked in this low speed profile i.e. it was not able to resync any higher than 10Meg.
      I can confirm that the phone is working fine during then and no noise i.e. 17070 quiet line test
      At the time managed to resync at a stable state of 9M with fluctuation of 4-7db in SNR
      i.e.
      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 9786 kbps 1022 kbps
      Line Attenuation 32 db 18 db
      Noise Margin 4-7 db 9 db

      13 hours later and the SNR has been stable at 13db without change.
      i.e.
      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 9786 kbps 1022 kbps
      Line Attenuation 32 db 18 db
      Noise Margin 13 db 9 db


      Now for a couple of questions:

      1) My connection of 9.7Meg with an stable SNR of 13db.....Would one not expect the SNR to raise alot higher seeing that i'm sync'd at a lower speed?
      As my usual connection of 13M gives me an SNR of 13-12db. Would 9M not give me a lot higher SNR?

      2) As my connection is now stable again in terms of the SNR (morning), I'm pretty certain that if i was to reboot the router, it would resync back to 13M with a similar SNR of 12-13.
      However, my thoughts were to leave it sync'd at 9M and see how long it can hold this connection for. I know that i can achieve speeds of 13-15Meg for a good number of hours when it was uncapped to these.....but struggles to keep it longer than a day due to these unknown SNR fluctuations. So would i be right in thinking that if i can hold this 9M connection alot longer (few days), then its proves that my line is just not capable of coping with the higher speeds i.e. 13+Meg

      And on the other hand, if i still get issues, then it must be an external fault? Seeing that i've had 10-11M connections for 4years with Sky in the past without issue.

      At this point, i'm clutching on straws here as this problem has been nothing but a nightmare thats started since June
      So I would appreciate any further suggestions and views on the above?
      Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?-noisemargin-2009jul30-1333.jpg  
      Last edited by hyeung; 01-08-09 at 11:35 AM.

    7. #106
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      As has always been the case here, the root cause of your problem is this drop in noise margin or more correctly, increase in noise causing the drop in the margin. You have had a new line pair, a split pair corrected, new master and filter faceplate and the fault remains. The intermittant nature of it does not help with trying to find the cause, but it is now time to look for an external cause. I am sure you will have been all over your flat, switching things on and off in an attempt to cure this. Have you tried tuning a battery powered AM radio to about the middle of the medium wave and listern to see if there is any interferance at the time when the drop occures? As you live in a block, do any of your neighbours have a problem with their BB?

    8. #107
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Quote Originally Posted by Brian69 View Post
      As has always been the case here, the root cause of your problem is this drop in noise margin or more correctly, increase in noise causing the drop in the margin. You have had a new line pair, a split pair corrected, new master and filter faceplate and the fault remains. The intermittant nature of it does not help with trying to find the cause, but it is now time to look for an external cause. I am sure you will have been all over your flat, switching things on and off in an attempt to cure this. Have you tried tuning a battery powered AM radio to about the middle of the medium wave and listern to see if there is any interferance at the time when the drop occures? As you live in a block, do any of your neighbours have a problem with their BB?
      To answer you question, yes i have tried a FM/MW radio...but thing is i'm not sure what exactly i'm supose to do; not sure what exact frequency i'm supose to tune into, how should it sound and what to look out for?
      It all sounds so similar i.e weird shzzz and buzzing sounds.
      The radio frequency runs from MW;:540 - 1600KHz, but its a primitive knob you turn, so probably not so accurate.

      Just to note that the connection has been up for almost 22 hours and no disconnects. When i was out today, there was a huge drop and major fluctuations between 13:00 thru to 15:20.....at one point the SNR was at 0 and then negative for about a minute. But the router appeared to hold the 9M connection. Normally the connection would have been lost at this point.
      After 15:20, the SNR stabilised and now its been flatlined at 13db.
      See the attachements...

      Btw, i've even splashed out on a Billion 7402NX router, hoping it would help the issue. Only had it running a day, and it also caused a drop. This time the router registered massive drop of -51db on SNR within the space of a second, causing a drop.

      Anyways firstly could you help answer the following?:

      1) Can you give any answers the questions (1)/(2) in my last post?

      2) Would a faulty card show these type of symptoms? Is it worth persuing a further change to my current card/port at exchange i.e. "lift and shift"?

      3) Can you advise further on the radio stuff?

      4) Based on these symptoms am i right to say that no matter what speed i sync at.....it looks like i'm gonna have problems. So no matter how much additional SNR margin i get by lowering my speed, its likely this noise is drowning things and hence causing a potential drop to my line. Hence, further capping isnt likely to resolve the matter......

      I'm even thought about moving ISP, but i'm thinking the issue is still gonna be there?

      The annoying thing is that BT/Sky aren't able to investigate and resolve this.....as i'm getting to the point that i'd pay top dollar for get this fixed pronto....but unfortunately such services just dont exist.........its so frustrating that i can't pin point and fixed the blasted thing
      Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?-noisemargin-2009aug01-1310.jpg   Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?-noisemargin-2009aug01-1331.jpg   Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?-noisemargin-2009aug01-1455.jpg   Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?-noisemargin-2009aug01-1515.jpg   Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?-noisemargin-2009aug01-1536.jpg  


    9. #108
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Have a read of this: ::. Kitz - REIN .::

    10. #109
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      In answer to your questions, yes i would expect to see the noise margin increase with a lower sync speed, but the whole point is that your line is subject to an increase in noise so it may not perform as expected.
      Yes you may well see an increase in speed if you re-sync when the noise margin is steady, but you are right, leave the router alone while it is connected, even at the lower speed. Billion routers are good but they cannot overcome a noise problem like this,
      A faulity line card could cause these problems, but I would be supprised if this had not been checked already, and as you say further capping is unlikely to resolve this.
      Using the radio is straight forward. You tun it to a mid part of the medium wave, somewhere where ther are no stations and if you hear an increase in noise as your line drops this is an indication of interferance close by. Have you spoken to your neighbours?

    11. #110
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      Re: Disconnects 'n Speed Issues?

      Quote Originally Posted by Brian69 View Post
      In answer to your questions, yes i would expect to see the noise margin increase with a lower sync speed, but the whole point is that your line is subject to an increase in noise so it may not perform as expected.
      Yes you may well see an increase in speed if you re-sync when the noise margin is steady, but you are right, leave the router alone while it is connected, even at the lower speed. Billion routers are good but they cannot overcome a noise problem like this,
      A faulity line card could cause these problems, but I would be supprised if this had not been checked already, and as you say further capping is unlikely to resolve this.
      Using the radio is straight forward. You tun it to a mid part of the medium wave, somewhere where ther are no stations and if you hear an increase in noise as your line drops this is an indication of interferance close by. Have you spoken to your neighbours?
      I've managed to tune the radio to a frequency where i think i can hear some distinct noise when holding up to the laptop or the router itself.
      For the router, its a buzz but a distinct tapping noise...which may be the adsl signal?
      So i guess when the SNR starts fluctuating badly....i should hold the radio near the router to identify any new distinct noises (possibly cause of interference), other than the distinct tapping noise that the router currently makes? Thereafter, i assume the task will be identify where this new distinct noise is coming from i.e. neighbours.
      Does that sound about rite??


      Next time i speak to Sky, i'll try and request for another card swap? I would think they would be happy to do this without issue, as i'm guessing its not like another BT engineer visit to the home which costs.

      In the past, when synced at 13M or 15M, during a steady stable SNR, i do still see the odd minor fluctuation i.e. 1-3db.
      However, other than the incident around 13:00 to 15:20 this afternoon....I have noticed that the SNR is showing a solid flatline of 13db without ANY fluctuation. Could the lower sync speed of 9M simply be a much more stable connection after all? But due to the incident in the afternoon, it contradicts the stable connection.

      I've tried to speak to some neighbours, some don't have BB. Some do, but their partners not in and they don't know anything about it
      I know there are atleast 2 folk in the block with BB, as i've detected 2 wireless access points; one being a Sky one. My wife bumped into one of the neighbours (with Sky BB) the other week but they didn't notice any issue with their BB. But then again, it could be that their sync'd at lower speed and just not noticed the issue? So will try and speak with them and other neighbours sometime.


      Anyways, so far the connections uptime is almost 24hours.
      Can i asked as to what your thoughts would be if my connection stays stable at
      9M for the next few days?
      Does it simply imply general interference (somewhere) thats causing higher sync speeds to be more prone in picking up the interference compared to lower speeds?

      However, I must say that i'm not entirely sure where to go if my BB continues to disconnect even at lower sync speeds....hence capping isnt gonna resolve until the route cause is identified. But with vibes i get from BT/Sky i'm not sure i'll be able to get much assistance? Like i'm a lost cause.

      Another thing maybe worth mentioning is that across the street from our building is a new development that recently opened up. Folk have moved in around the sametime as when i noticed this issue of drops (June). I don't know how and why, but my gut feel that the inital cause of my drops have stem from this new development. Theres probably a good 20-30 residents there, compared to 5 residents in our block alone.
      So i would imagine, a few have had their phone lines setup or BB etc. But then again, could the builders have done something when getting the development ready? Very difficult to say???

      Will update on the connection later.

      Cheers

     

     
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