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    Should I use ADSL2+ or not?

    This is a discussion on Should I use ADSL2+ or not? within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Hi everyone, and happy Easter! This is going to be a long one so get a cuppa ready... I'm currently ...

    1. #1
      zedbra's Avatar
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      Question Should I use ADSL2+ or not?

      Hi everyone, and happy Easter! This is going to be a long one so get a cuppa ready...

      I'm currently using ADSL Max with another company for my Internet and am considering moving to Sky Max LLU for the lower price, plus increased upload and download speeds. However, my research has brought up so many questions that I'm now wondering if I should do it. For all the positive answers I've found to my questions, I've found many negative ones too.

      To start with, these are my modem details on ADSL Max...

      Upstream Rate (Kbps) 448
      Downstream Rate (Kbps) 3168
      US Margin 19
      DS Margin 3
      Modulation GDMT
      LOS Errors 0
      DS Line Attenuation 58
      US Line Attenuation 63
      Path Mode Interleaved

      (I wonder if the US and DS attenuation figures are actually the other way around, seeing as they are for SNR and sync?).

      The downstream sync varies from 2.5mbps to 3.5mbps. Due to the BT IP profile, my speed is usually set to 2.0mbps or 2.5mbps.

      To my surprise after what people say, when I entered my phone number in the Sky checker it told me I could have Sky Max. I know that uses ADSL2+ (which IS available at my exchange) and I'd use the supplied router/modem. I have been told that the chipset in my current modem is Texas, which is known to try and sync too fast, therefore lowering the SNR. I've also been told that the better chipset for use with ADSL2+ is Broadcom, and my research tells me that Sky currently send out 1 of 2 routers that both use the Texas AR-7 chipset. I understand that my attenuation will be 3db higher than on ADSL Max, so would that not mean lower speed? Also would Sky's LLU equipment take the sync speed down, to increase my SNR to 6 or more? However, the lack of an IP profile will mean that I'll end up with a faster speed. I've also read that Interleaving is reduced by Sky, although I know my line can't cope with it off completely, but it should increase speed a little.

      So there are both positive and negative points to this, and it's leaving me worried about making the move. Would anyone be able to clarify any of this please and advice me on what's best for me to do, and give some definite idea about what I can expect speed-wise?

      Advice from the company I'm currently with as far as getting ADSL2+ with them, is that my upstream and downstream speeds will increase providing I buy a modem with the Broadcom chipset. I know Sky's router/modems aren't Broadcom now though. I guess I could stay on ADSL Max using Sky Mid, which as it's LLU should give me higher downstream speed while leaving upstream the same. The download limits for Sky Mid are sufficient for me so would that be best? I'd rather go for MAX to get better speeds IF it's likely to work.

      My other option would be to stay with the company I'm currently with and put up with the speeds I currently get, although I have to say that it's costing me twice as much! Is that safer though than moving to Sky, with a possibility of things just getting worse? I've read many threads now in this and other forums regarding people with long lines ending up with a slower speed.

      Thanks for any help, and sorry if you're all asleep now.
      Geoff.


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    3. #2
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      Re: Should I use ADSL2+ or not?

      TBH, with that attenuation, your line is fairly long, and I think if you went to ADSL2+, whilst you may see a slight increase, it would be unstable.

      I would stick with DGT or D-MGT, whatever it is lol....

      Mike

    4. #3
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      Re: Should I use ADSL2+ or not?

      if sky cannot get a stable connection with adsl2+ then they can also use gdmt upto 8mb similar to what you are on now, thats what i was on when i first joined sky but after moving my bt box thus removing over 30 meters of 20year old cabling i was able to get sky to upgrade to adsl2+ and have never looked back

      this is a speedtest result from today which is the slowest test result i have ever had its usually around 12.-13.5mb but i'm not picky
      Connection Speed 16379 kbps 764 kbps
      Line Attenuation 27 db 15 db
      Noise Margin 9 db 18 db
      above is router stats using netgear black router

    5. #4
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      Re: Should I use ADSL2+ or not?

      Thanks for those replies.

      nodrog - You're obviously on a lot shorter line so in a far better position than me. Do you reckon that if I was connected using ADSL2+ and a decent connection isn't had straight away, they would change it to ADSL Max immediately (can it be switched remotely?) without me having to wait for the training period, make lots of phone calls, and have barely any Internet until it's changed? That's what worries me. I just don't want to invite all that hassle if I can avoid it.

    6. #5
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      Re: Should I use ADSL2+ or not?

      With those figures you would not be using ADSL2 (I doubt they will even try it unless DLM does it automaicaly), you would be put on GDMT and speeds should be similar to what you have now.

      On the bright side, because Sky have their equipment in the exchange you will have no download limits and should see steady speeds near your lines maximum figure of around 3-4mb.

      Cheaper too, even cheaper if you can live with 40gb per month as you could go onto Sky Mid and save 5pm

    7. #6
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      Re: Should I use ADSL2+ or not?

      Quote Originally Posted by Smithy99 View Post
      With those figures you would not be using ADSL2 (I doubt they will even try it unless DLM does it automaicaly), you would be put on GDMT and speeds should be similar to what you have now.

      On the bright side, because Sky have their equipment in the exchange you will have no download limits and should see steady speeds near your lines maximum figure of around 3-4mb.

      Cheaper too, even cheaper if you can live with 40gb per month as you could go onto Sky Mid and save 5pm
      Thanks Smithy. Trouble with this is that as with anything like this, different people tell me different things. The boss/manager/owner of the company I'm currently with is sure I'll get on ADSL2+ without a problem if I stayed with that company. Yet yourself and some others say I won't - Or are you saying it's just Sky that won't do it?

      If I could try it out, using Sky's provided modem/router, and it wouldn't connect but it was immediately moved to ADSL Max and I was put on the lower package, then I'd do it. Is it an automated process though or would it take lots of phone calls and messing around?

      Officially, and going by various graphs I've seen, I WILL get faster speeds. Of course they are not always going to reflect what will happen for everyone.

      Geoff.

    8. #7
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      Re: Should I use ADSL2+ or not?

      Quote Originally Posted by zedbra View Post
      Thanks Smithy. Trouble with this is that as with anything like this, different people tell me different things. The boss/manager/owner of the company I'm currently with is sure I'll get on ADSL2+ without a problem if I stayed with that company. Yet yourself and some others say I won't - Or are you saying it's just Sky that won't do it?.
      In theory, anyone could connect via ADSL2 but unless you have a line capable of over 8mb then there is no point and lines with poor stats like yours will actually be worse off as they will become less stable on ADSL2 so the boss/manager/owner is correct but is swinging the lead a little to try to keep your business.

      Quote Originally Posted by zedbra View Post
      If I could try it out, using Sky's provided modem/router, and it wouldn't connect but it was immediately moved to ADSL Max and I was put on the lower package, then I'd do it. Is it an automated process though or would it take lots of phone calls and messing around?
      I think you may be getting a little confused with the Sky packages, if Sky have their equipment in your exchange you can receive any one of these packages:-

      Sky Base (2mb speeds and a 2GB monthly download limit)
      Sky Mid (upto 8mb speeds and a 40GB download limit)
      Sky Max (upto 16mb speeds and unlimited download)

      None of these use BT's equipment and are not the ADSL Max package that they supply. I wish Sky had used another name for the SkyMax package to help avoid confusion.

      So even if you go for the top Sky package of Sky Max, your speeds will not improve (at least not by much) as you are already topping the line out, You should still be on GDMT but still using the Sky equipment (ADSL2 is only for lines with good stats).

      Quote Originally Posted by zedbra View Post
      Officially, and going by various graphs I've seen, I WILL get faster speeds. Of course they are not always going to reflect what will happen for everyone.
      Speeds are mainly dependant on the line quality and length, as you know what your stats are you can get a good idea what the maximum speeds will be. This will not change by much unless you have a fault on your line and your stats are being compromised with it (which I doubt)

      The speed for your stats:- 3-4mb and I don't think anyone will be able to surpass this, anyone who says they can are pulling the wool over your eyes, ask them to put it in writing, that usually makes them back track PDQ, remember they will quote upto speeds which in reality is a cop out.

    9. #8
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      Re: Should I use ADSL2+ or not?

      Quote Originally Posted by Smithy99 View Post
      In theory, anyone could connect via ADSL2 but unless you have a line capable of over 8mb then there is no point and lines with poor stats like yours will actually be worse off as they will become less stable on ADSL2 so the boss/manager/owner is correct but is swinging the lead a little to try to keep your business.
      According to graphs, there is still an increase in speed with ADSL2+ even with my long line, and the upstream should be increased at least. I could certainly use that in some cases, but of course not if my line becomes unstable as you say it would.

      Quote Originally Posted by Smithy99 View Post
      I think you may be getting a little confused with the Sky packages, if Sky have their equipment in your exchange you can receive any one of these packages:-

      Sky Base (2mb speeds and a 2GB monthly download limit)
      Sky Mid (upto 8mb speeds and a 40GB download limit)
      Sky Max (upto 16mb speeds and unlimited download)

      None of these use BT's equipment and are not the ADSL Max package that they supply. I wish Sky had used another name for the SkyMax package to help avoid confusion.
      I'm not confused by the word 'Max', but can see how some might be. What I've read elsewhere is that Sky's Base and Mid packages use 'normal' ADSL (I assume ADSL Max) and their Max package uses ADSL2+. I thought both those were the same protocols as BT use, although I know it actually uses Sky's LLU equipment, which would give me the benefit of not having an IP Profile from BT slowing things down. Have I got some of that wrong?

      Quote Originally Posted by Smithy99 View Post
      The speed for your stats:- 3-4mb and I don't think anyone will be able to surpass this, anyone who says they can are pulling the wool over your eyes, ask them to put it in writing, that usually makes them back track PDQ, remember they will quote upto speeds which in reality is a cop out.
      I have been told that I'm getting "fantastic" speed for my line length, and I am connected to the Master Socket using an Internet faceplate (I forget the proper name for it), so can't get any better than I currently have. I'm only thinking I'll get faster speeds because that's what the official graphs say. There is also the matter of which chipset my modem uses, which is complicating things a little more as I don't know that I can trust the stats it's telling me. It is an old D-Link 300-T modem flashed for ADSL Max, with TI chipset.

      Anyway, thanks for taking the time to help me with this. My brain is twisting itself up in knots now wondering what I should do! LOL. I wish I could just try ADSL2+ to see how it went, but I can't even do that with my current company as I don't yet have a suitable modem. I won't buy one in preparation for moving to Sky as they provide a modem/router anyway (shame it isn't wireless-N though!).

      Cheers,
      Geoff.

    10. #9
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      Re: Should I use ADSL2+ or not?

      I think you are over thinking it, if you get what I mean.

      Modem chipset will make no difference, you will be worse off on ADSL2 and not receive any better speeds using it.

      Chances are you will get the same DL speed using Sky, they will keep you on GDMT as ADSL2 will have no benefit's but you should still get the better upstream.

      Ignore the graphs etc, your stats tell the story, 3-4mb is the best you will do no matter what protocol or router chipset you get.

      You should consider getting rid of wireless, even the 'n' type routers have problems with interference and you would be better spending your money on a couple of homeplugs.

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      Re: Should I use ADSL2+ or not?

      Quote Originally Posted by Smithy99 View Post
      I think you are over thinking it, if you get what I mean.
      Yes you make a good point, it's something I'm often accused of. LOL.

      I have wondered about homeplugs. I have no problems with my wireless at the moment though so no point changing unless I have to. For now I only use Wireless-G, but my current router is Wireless-N enabled too and someone else in the house is about to get a Laptop with wireless-N, and it may be needed away from the house slightly where there are no mains sockets. So that's why I had that on my mind.

      Ok it looks like a move to Sky Mid is on the cards.

      Thanks for your time,
      Geoff.

     

     
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