Why do I have to pay BT?

[nafrance]

I'm attempting to get Sky BB (& Tv & Talk) into my new place before I move in.

I understand the concept of LLU broadband. I haven't paid BT a penny in many years. The last 2 flats I was in both had BT lines run in. For both I've had Bulldog (now Pipex) setup my phone and broadband and all has run well for 5 years, over two apartments and I've never had a BT bill once

Now, Sky refuse to sign me up without a phone number (unlike other LLU providers like Bulldog) and it seems I have to now pay BT line rental.

Is it some weird Sky policy? I've already had Pipex confirm they can move my existing account to the new place, but I'd rather go with one Sky bill for all 3 services together.

Why?? Can someone explain it to me? I know positively there is a working line into the flat. Short of the exchange [Blackfriars] being at capacity, I see no reason why I should pay BT a penny!

Am I destined to pay Big Thief line rental?

[jonny1310]

Well you could pay your line rental to sky instead of bt.

[nafrance]

I'd love to - but Sky won't connect me without getting a phone number (which means opening an account with a 12 month line rental contract with BT).

[Isitme]

I don't think there is anything weird about it, I think you will find that Pipex require you to have a BT line before they will sign you up. To have a BT line you must have a number, just because the physical line is there does not mean that it is yours, simply that it is there available for rent. If Pipex are able to offer this then go for it, they must be prepared to pay the reconnection charge for the phone. Bulldog did supply an line installation service independent of BT at a cost of about £100. I don't know if Pipex have carried this over. Sky like almost all other LLU operators require an active BT line.

[dholdi]

Originally Posted by jonny1310

Well you could pay your line rental to sky instead of bt.

I didnt think Sky were doing this yet, but a colleague at work has done it. I didnt believe him at first as I hadnt " heard it here first " but he brought me a letter in today to prove it. And for the first 6 months he's only paying £5/month.

[Isitme]

^^^^^^^^
Are you shut away in a dark dingy cellar playing with you radio knobs? Sky have had THIS deal available for some months.

[dholdi]

^^^^^^^ Lol, guess I must be, tho some would say its not the radio type

[paul7285]

I'll try and explain this because Ofcom have made this situation a nightmare!

Sky is a communications provider (CP) who rent wholesale products from Openreach (the ring-fenced line of business of the BT Group that owns, maintains and provides connections between the CP and the End User, you!).

Voice/Broadband products from "BT" are actually from BT Retail. They rent products from Openreach in the same manner as Sky or any other provider do.

There are two core products that Openreach provide for voice and broadband. These are Wholesale Line Rental (WLR) and Local Loop Unbundling (LLU).

WLR is a complete phone package available to the CP which can be customised. Sky Talk use WLR. You can take a calls only option (call revenue to sky, line rental to BT Retail). Or you can take your full service from your CP - this is Sky Talk with Line Rental.

I believe currently Sky do not offer a new line direct from them - you have to order a BT Retail line and then switch to Sky Talk Line Rental to them. You can do this because it is exactly what I did.

There are two types of LLU. Shared Metallic Path Facility (SMPF) and MPF. Sky employ the SMPF setup - that is they put their broadband equipment in the exchange, provide the BB with the LLU and then you take a WLR for your calls. Whether you opt to stay with BT Retail for your calls or move to sky, you are still on WLR.

Pipex/Bulldog differed in the the fact that they provided ALL of your services through LLU. They provided their own dialtone through they LLU equipment and did not rent a WLR package from openreach. This is why you may have had the option of broadband only without phone on bulldog/pipex.

To summarise, SMPF LLU is a shared facility with the phone aspect provided with WLR (more common). MPF where all your services are provided by one operator.

If anybody wants any more info on this subject, just ask, because it is fecking dry!!!!!