Your forum username:
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up


    Welcome to Sky User - The Unofficial Support Forum for everything Sky! - Proudly helping over 65k members.


    Advertisement

    Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
    Results 31 to 40 of 44

    Information Please!

    This is a discussion on Information Please! within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Come on Brian69, you're being slightly disingenuous geezer. You know what I'm saying. Its not about 100 or 100,000 users. ...

    1. #31
      Netgeezer's Avatar
      Netgeezer is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Max
      Router: Netgear V2 DG934G
      Sky TV:
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Posts
      355
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

      Re: Information Please!

      Come on Brian69, you're being slightly disingenuous geezer. You know what I'm saying. Its not about 100 or 100,000 users. It is simply that these users, all of them, have signed up to an agreement to use Sky's equipment on Sky's network. Really, they haven't a leg to stand on. Emotively saying that nasty Sky shouldn't trade like this is entirely moot. It is, after all, Sky's trainset and they can do what they like with it. The players, however, cannot
      Last edited by Netgeezer; 27-03-08 at 11:31 PM. Reason: Typos
      It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer.
      [Albert Einstein]




      ADSL Nation XF-1e filter - the dogs nuts


    2. Advertisement
    3. #32
      Brian69's Avatar
      Brian69 is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: Kings Lynn
      Broadband ISP: Sky Unlimited
      Router: Non Sky Router
      Sky TV: Sky+ HD
      Join Date
      Feb 2008
      Posts
      2,971
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts

      Re: Information Please!

      The whole point of this thread was to ask if a user could use his own equipment rather than Sky's, and saying that you cannot because it is against T&C's while being correct, is no real answer. We are after all not children and can make our own minds up and take any kicks that may be coming. This constant cry that all hell will break lose if, God forbid, a Speedtouch should soil a Easynet DSLAM, adds nothing to this.

    4. #33
      Netgeezer's Avatar
      Netgeezer is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Max
      Router: Netgear V2 DG934G
      Sky TV:
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Posts
      355
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

      Re: Information Please!

      But that is simply not right, how can you reasonably say that?

      Let us just replay the theme of this thread;
      Q- "Can I use my own ADSL router on Sky's service"
      A- "No, you are not allowed to. To qualify that, it is against the T&Cs that you signed up to"

      That is entirely valid. That is the sole reason that you are not able to legitimately use non-Sky equipments is that it is forbidden by contract.

      Now lets try it your implied way.
      Q- "Can I use my own ADSL router on Sky's service"
      A- "Yes, its against the T&Cs but don't worry about them, if you're old enough to sign the deal then you're old enough to break it"

      Now lets turn to the "anarchy" ["Absence or non-recognition of authority and order in any given sphere."] comment of mine. To be completely objective, what I am suggesting is that once it becomes okay to break the contract [the authority], even in seemingly minor ways, the route to anarchy is established. Not anarchy as in burning buildings, but quite simply [in context] a descent into technological uncontrolledness which, from Sky's perspective, is not something that they desire. The degree or scale of that uncontrolledness is irrelevant, that it even exists is undesirable from a business and brand perspective.

      Look around the forum at the complaints that arise from people who use their own routers. It is all Sky's fault that their non-Sky router does not work. How can that be? The complainer does not even consider for a moment that other factors can be at work. Perhaps that nice shiny Belkin of theirs is either broken or not set up correctly. And yet they expect Sky to solve the problem which is not of the company's making. They go on to bad-mouth Sky at every opportunity without considering for a moment that the entire root of the problem is at their own making, or resides with them.

      From a company perspective that is nothing short of anarchy. And to allow it to continue unchecked would be to allow damage to the brand reputation. I, for one, would support any businesses right to defend its position in that light.
      It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer.
      [Albert Einstein]




      ADSL Nation XF-1e filter - the dogs nuts

    5. #34
      Brian69's Avatar
      Brian69 is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: Kings Lynn
      Broadband ISP: Sky Unlimited
      Router: Non Sky Router
      Sky TV: Sky+ HD
      Join Date
      Feb 2008
      Posts
      2,971
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts

      Re: Information Please!

      I can say that because I am an adult and can decide to use a non-sky router because I am prepaired to take the consequences if caught.
      To try an read more into this than that is foolish, just as it is foolish to suggest that someone who fails to pay their library fine will turn to mass murder
      I am sorry to say that we live in an imperfect world. Back in 1970, I was offered £20 by a bookmaker because he did not want a party line in his new home. Did I take it? you'er damm right I did. I was only on £12 a week at the time, and was not long married, but if I had been found out I would have been out on my ear.
      And as you are so keen on T&C's I don't see you hauling people over the coals for breaking BT's by opening their master sockets.
      Last edited by Brian69; 28-03-08 at 02:06 AM.

    6. #35
      James67's Avatar
      James67 is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Other ISP
      Router: Non Sky Router
      Sky TV: Freesat
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Posts
      1,789
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
      Blog Entries
      3

      Re: Information Please!

      It's all very well concentrating on the customer's obligations under the terms and conditions of the Sky Broadband contract, but what about Sky's obligations?

      I didn't get my router until 14 days after my line was switched over. There were endless calls to provisioning, I was constantly being told that a router was being sent out that day by 24 hour courier, only for no router to arrive.

      And when I finally got the router, my connection was basically unusable for several hours in the evening (the time when I was most likely to be using it). I phoned technical support, only to be told that the problem was caused by "errors building up on the line". Now I can imagine many people might have swallowed that piece of BS, but it didn't work on me. After explaining how "errors building up on the line" was a piece of nonsense, they sent me another router and it exhibited the same problem. After much investigation, I was able to determine that there was a fault in the way the router performed bit swapping. (And it was at that point that I discovered that other people on this forum, e.g., Mossywell, had arrived at that conclusion too).

      So as of this date, I still haven't been issued a properly working router. And that's a considerable breach of contract on Sky's part, as far as I'm concerned.

      But the problems don't just stop there. I have the wireless facility switched on on my Sky router, and it was only after a few months that I discovered that it was pretty easy for anyone to work out my ADSL password and my default WPA network key simply by looking at my router's MAC address, which is broadcast in the clear over the wireless network, irrespective of what kind of wireless security my router is configured to use.

      Obviously, I have changed my WPA network key, but I can't change my ADSL password. I have no idea if any of my neighbours happen to be using my ADSL credentials to access Sky Broadband. And that, quite frankly, is a far bigger black mark on Sky's corporate image than letting a few techie-orientated customers use their own router. I do hope that Sky have addressed this important security issue in the forthcoming firmware update.

    7. #36
      Netgeezer's Avatar
      Netgeezer is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Max
      Router: Netgear V2 DG934G
      Sky TV:
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Posts
      355
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

      Re: Information Please!

      Clearly we cannot agree on this point at all. I'd agree that, yes, you as an adult can braek the T&Cs as this thread discusses (not BT Master sockets which is another topic altogether). But then I would not expect any bleating from those who have subsequently been disconnected or their contracts terminated through that. However, on this very forum are one or two who have complained about that very happening. So, the answer the OPs question is indeed "No" albeit with a bundle of caveats should they choose to go ahead anyway. It would be entirely wrong not to make that point clearly.

      James67 - you are completely correct, Sky do indeed have obligations under the very same contract. And these obligations, I contend, extend way past the router's warranty and indeed for the life of the contract with the client. Whether or not Sky keep to the principle of that I do not know (yet). There have been posts on the forum that I have seen where it seems that Sky expect you to buy a new router if the old one dies post warranty. That, to me, seems wholly inadequate purely because of the contractual restriction to their kit. I wonder, then, if there has been misrepresentation by the call centre agent or if Sky's expectation is otherwise. To my mind, if the latter is the case then Sky in effect terminate the contract by their actions and intent which only leave you one alternative to find another ISP. However, that is not Sky's intent, they would not wish to lose customers through their own design - they want and need all the customers they can get. So should I face that moment in the future I would not bother arguing it out with the call centre agent but would approach more senior levels of management for a policy decision. Should I not get it, then the alternative is clear and the choice is immense.
      It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer.
      [Albert Einstein]




      ADSL Nation XF-1e filter - the dogs nuts

    8. #37
      Brian69's Avatar
      Brian69 is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: Kings Lynn
      Broadband ISP: Sky Unlimited
      Router: Non Sky Router
      Sky TV: Sky+ HD
      Join Date
      Feb 2008
      Posts
      2,971
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts

      Re: Information Please!

      Netgeezer.
      Yes it would appear that we must agree to differ. You cannot just wipe away the BT point. You accepted their T&C's, and I assume you comply with them.

    9. #38
      James67's Avatar
      James67 is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Other ISP
      Router: Non Sky Router
      Sky TV: Freesat
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Posts
      1,789
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
      Blog Entries
      3

      Re: Information Please!

      Quote Originally Posted by Netgeezer View Post
      James67 - you are completely correct, Sky do indeed have obligations under the very same contract.
      I love the way you just step completely around the very large elephant in the room. How exactly does this statement…
      Quote Originally Posted by Netgeezer View Post
      From a company perspective that is nothing short of anarchy. And to allow it to continue unchecked would be to allow damage to the brand reputation. I, for one, would support any businesses right to defend its position in that light.
      …sit with the fact that a million Sky Broadband accounts are insecure? If that isn't allowing "damage to the brand reputation", then I don't know what is.

      My password site can now give all Sky customers their router's ADSL username and password. In the case of the DG834GT, I ask people to enter their LAN MAC address and the router's default WPA network key. That network key isn't required as part of the process of determining the ADSL password. It serves only to provide proof that the person has physical access to the router. (The site calculates the default WPA network key from the entered MAC address, and checks to see that it matches the network key that was entered).

      So the security of a million Sky Broadband customers hangs on (a) a single customer having a conscience and choosing to implement some kind mechanism to prevent abuse and (b) that customer implementing that mechanism correctly.

      How could Sky - supposedly conscious of its reputation - let itself get into that position?

    10. #39
      Cardiff2008's Avatar
      Cardiff2008 is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: Cardiff Empire
      Broadband ISP: Max
      Router: Netgear V2 DG934G
      Sky TV:
      Join Date
      Jan 2008
      Posts
      27
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

      Re: Information Please!

      I find all the posts very interesting. I don't want to go over old ground but my view is simple:-

      I am a Sky Broadband Member by choice. I knew when I signed up that I must use the Sky Router. Mine is version 2 and - thus far - has caused me no problem. If it did, I assume I would get a replacement from Sky.

      As a 'reasonable-minded' individual, I cannot see why Sky should object if I were to use my own Router because their unit proved unusable/unreliable.

      I must also say that I just cannot see why I can't use my own Router in any event - saving Sky money. (Yes, I realise Sky have 'future objectives' which might involve the use of a Router built to their specifications)

      I understand that, if I were to use my own Router, I would not be entitled to support if it were to cause problems to my connection. (Just like with my previous ISPs - and I never worried about that!!)

      To sum up my view - I use Sky's Router as it causes me no trouble so to do. However, I see Sky's T&C's in this respect to be a pain in the neck and thorn in the side of good customer relations.

      Originally posted by Netgeezer:

      So, the answer the OPs question is indeed "No" albeit with a bundle of caveats should they choose to go ahead anyway.
      My original questions asked whether Sky had ceased service after 'unlawful' Router usage and how would they discover such usage?
      The hardest journey you will make is meeting people half way!

    11. #40
      Isitme's Avatar
      Isitme is offline Sky User Moderator
      Exchange: Bannockburn
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sky Hub SR102
      Sky TV: Sky+ HD
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
      Location
      Central Scotland
      Posts
      34,131
      Thanks
      64
      Thanked 1,641 Times in 1,602 Posts

      Re: Information Please!

      My original questions asked whether Sky had ceased service after 'unlawful' Router usage and how would they discover such usage?
      This was partly answered by NR away back in post #2

      Sky have a record of all bandwidth used be it's members, unfortunately they have not yet devised a way to share it with them, thus enabling everyone to keep within their limits. I know there are 3rd party tools, but these are not really the answer as they only monitor individual connections to the router and with most it is difficult to separate LAN from WAN. I am not sure if they are suitable for games console use which could contribute quite a lot to bandwidth usage.

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.





     

     
    Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

    Tags for this Thread

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •  
    SkyUser - Copyright © 2006-2017. SatDish and NewsreadeR | SkyUser is in no way affiliated with Sky Broadband / BSkyB
    RIPA NOTICE: NO CONSENT IS GIVEN FOR INTERCEPTION OF PAGE TRANSMISSION