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    VoIP with Sky/Sagem F@st 2504

    This is a discussion on VoIP with Sky/Sagem F@st 2504 within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Hello, I just relocated to the UK and would like to continue using my (German) VoIP account for calls to ...

    1. #1
      Ashe's Avatar
      Ashe is offline Sky User Member
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      VoIP with Sky/Sagem F@st 2504

      Hello,

      I just relocated to the UK and would like to continue using my (German) VoIP account for calls to Germany. Unfortunately I'm unable to register to any of my SIP providers (probably same problem as discussed in thread Installing VOIP phones)

      After some investigation into this I think the problem is caused by the Sagem F@st 2504 Router with Firmware Version 1.5Sky (don't know whether that's intended or a bug):

      1. Both my VoIP router AVM Fritz!Box 7170 with current firmware and SIP clients as X-Lite, Ekiga, and Twinkle were unable to register to sip.carpo.de and sip.sipgate.de (got always a registration timeout). The Fritz!Box is behind the Sagem box because of the Sky T&C and because it's a Annex B box. The soft clients work neither directly behind the Sagem nor the AVM box.

      2. My first assumption was a NAT problem, so I configured the AVM box experimentally as Exposed Host (aka "Default DMZ Server") in the Sagem router. Same problem...

      3. Got a little bit deeper in it... I used Wireshark to sniff the traffic between a softclient (which was directly behind the Sagem box) and my SIP provider. The softclient used first STUN to handle the NAT. This process finished successfully. After that it sent an registration request to sip.carpo.de (IP 80.95.252.5) at UDP 5060 (Ethernet Frame information and SIP Message Header omitted):

      Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.1.5 (192.168.1.5), Dst: 80.95.252.5 (80.95.252.5)
      User Datagram Protocol, Src Port: scp (3820), Dst Port: sip (5060)
      Session Initiation Protocol
      Request-Line: REGISTER sip:carpo.de SIP/2.0

      Message Header

      The answer of the SIP registrar (Ethernet Frame information and ICMP payload omitted) was an ICMP port unreachable:

      Internet Protocol, Src: 80.95.252.5 (80.95.252.5), Dst: 192.168.1.5 (192.168.1.5)
      Internet Control Message Protocol
      Type: 3 (Destination unreachable)
      Code: 3 (Port unreachable)

      4. That's odd. Why answered the SIP registrar that its SIP port is unreachable? I cross-checked that remotely with Twinkle from a machine in Germany. There was no problem. I asked the support of the SIP provider but they denied that they block any IP address ranges.

      5. If not sip.carpo.de (IP 80.95.252.5) sends the ICMP port unreachable messages which node on the path between 80.95.252.5 and me does it on behalf of 80.95.252.5? Let's look deeper into the ICMP port unreachable message (Ethernet Frame information and ICMP payload omitted):

      Internet Protocol, Src: 80.95.252.5 (80.95.252.5), Dst: 192.168.1.5 (192.168.1.5)
      Version: 4
      Header length: 20 bytes
      Differentiated Services Field: 0xc0 (DSCP 0x30: Class Selector 6; ECN: 0x00)
      Total Length: 576
      Identification: 0x34f0 (13552)
      Flags: 0x00
      Fragment offset: 0
      Time to live: 64
      Protocol: ICMP (0x01)
      Header checksum: 0x34fb [correct]
      Source: 80.95.252.5 (80.95.252.5)
      Destination: 192.168.1.5 (192.168.1.5)
      Internet Control Message Protocol
      Type: 3 (Destination unreachable)
      Code: 3 (Port unreachable)

      The TTL was 64. If I ping sip.carpo.de I get the following answer (Ethernet Frame information and ICMP payload omitted):

      Internet Protocol, Src: 80.95.252.5 (80.95.252.5), Dst: 192.168.1.5 (192.168.1.5)
      Version: 4
      Header length: 20 bytes
      Differentiated Services Field: 0x00 (DSCP 0x00: Default; ECN: 0x00)
      Total Length: 60
      Identification: 0x5fe4 (24548)
      Flags: 0x00
      Fragment offset: 0
      Time to live: 51
      Protocol: ICMP (0x01)
      Header checksum: 0x19cd [correct]
      Source: 80.95.252.5 (80.95.252.5)
      Destination: 192.168.1.5 (192.168.1.5)
      Internet Control Mesage Protocol
      Type: 0 (Echo (ping) reply)

      As you can see the TTL from a packet "origined" from 80.95.252.5 and destined for 192.168.1.5 is 51 not 64. I did a traceroute to determine the path to 80.95.252.5 and noted their respective TTLs:

      1 192.168.1.1 (TTL=64)
      2 cr0.cmeard.uk.easynet.net [195.189.159.147] (TTL=63)
      3 80.238.56.129 (TTL=253)
      4 be2.er10.thlon.ov.easynet.net [195.66.224.43] (TTL=251)
      5 LINX-gw12.UK.net.dtag.de [195.66.224.137] (TTL=244)
      6 62.154.15.46 (TTL=244)
      7 gigaeth1-0-255.kcp05c-gw.viapraga.cz.5.158.193.in-addr.arpa [193.158.5.102] (TTL=244)
      8 212.67.95.5 (TTL=244)
      9 212.67.89.42 (TTL=244)
      10 vlan280.kcp06-dsw1.viapraga.cz [212.67.64.251] (TTL=243)
      11 stun.carpo.net [80.95.252.5] (TTL=51)

      The only node with a TTL of 64 is my Sagem box. I know that's no evidence but a good indication for being this router sending me the ICMP port unreachable messages on behalf of 80.95.252.5.

      6. I checked the firewall rules of the Sagem box. There is an "allow all from any to any" default rule set outbound. A change of the inbound rules shouldn't resolve the problem but I added experimentally an "allow all from any to exposed host" rule to inbound. No change...

      7. I used hping3 to generate some packets with SIP payload destined for 80.95.252.5 for further testing:

      destination port UDP 5060: got ICMP port unreachable messages
      destination port TCP 5060: got no ICMP port unreachable messages
      destination port UDP 5061: got no ICMP port unreachable messages
      destination port UDP 5060 without payload: got ICMP port unreachable messages

      8. I used netcat to send a SIP payload to a self-administrated machine in Germany. The local PC was now behind the Fritz!Box, so the expected TTL of an ICMP port unreachable message should be now 63. The normal TTL from the remote machine is 49.

      local: user@local-linux:~$ cat /tmp/sip.raw | netcat <remote-ip> <remote-port> [-u]
      remote: user@remote-linux:~$ netcat -l -p <listening-port> [-u] -vv > /tmp/netcat.sip

      <remote-ip> - IP of self-administrated machine in Germany
      <listening/remote-port> - used port
      [-u] - if set, use UDP

      netcat <remote-ip> 7010 -> packet passed
      netcat <remote-ip> 7010 -u -> packet passed
      netcat <remote-ip> 5060 -> packet passed
      netcat <remote-ip> 5060 -u -> packet blocked, got ICMP port unreachable message with TTL of 63 from <remote-ip>
      netcat <remote-ip> 5061 -u -> packet passed


      After all that testing I consider that the Sagem box intercepts UDP 5060 packets and sends ICMP port unreachable messages on behalf of the requested IP. So, there is my question:

      Anyone who can confirm that behaviour? Is there are workaround?

      BTW: Sorry for my English. I'm working on it...
      Last edited by Ashe; 18-03-08 at 10:06 PM.


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    3. #2
      Isitme's Avatar
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      Re: VoIP with Sky/Sagem F@st 2504

      Internet Protocol, Src: 80.95.252.5 (80.95.252.5), Dst: 192.168.1.5 (192.168.1.5)
      Shouldn't this be within the address range of the router? ie 192.168.0.xx

      TomD


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    4. #3
      Ashe's Avatar
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      Re: VoIP with Sky/Sagem F@st 2504

      Shouldn't this be within the address range of the router? ie 192.168.0.xx
      I changed the address range from 192.168.0.0/24 to 192.168.1.0/24.

    5. #4
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      Re: VoIP with Sky/Sagem F@st 2504

      Quote Originally Posted by Ashe View Post
      I changed the address range from 192.168.0.0/24 to 192.168.1.0/24.
      Why do this Ashe? If you revert to 192.168.0.xx Submask 255.255.255.0 does your problem go away?

    6. #5
      Ashe's Avatar
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      Re: VoIP with Sky/Sagem F@st 2504

      Quote Originally Posted by dms05 View Post
      Why do this Ashe? If you revert to 192.168.0.xx Submask 255.255.255.0 does your problem go away?
      There were several reasons to change the default value. If correct implemented any RFC1918 IP address range should work.

      But to go on with troubleshooting I decided to reset the Sagem box to factory default. Unfortunately this did not solve the problem.

      The Sagem router has now the IP 192.168.0.1; no changes were made in the configuration. A PC with X-Lite got the IP 192.168.0.2 via DHCP. The SIP registration process of X-Lite was recorded by Wireshark.

      This first packet starts the STUN process. It opens a hole in the inbound firewall of the router for following packets with a destination port of 6883 destined for the local PC with the IP 192.168.0.2.

      No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
      167 16.853005 192.168.0.2 80.95.252.5 UDP Source port: 6883 Destination port: nat-stun-port

      Frame 167 (70 bytes on wire, 70 bytes captured)
      Ethernet II, Src: EdimaxTe_ff:0d:91 (00:0e:2e:ff:0d:91), Dst: SagemCom_62:13:65 (00:1e:74:62:13:65)
      Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2), Dst: 80.95.252.5 (80.95.252.5)
      User Datagram Protocol, Src Port: 6883 (6883), Dst Port: nat-stun-port (3478)
      Source port: 6883 (6883)
      Destination port: nat-stun-port (3478)
      Length: 36
      Checksum: 0x5643 [correct]

      The second packet is the answer from stun.carpo.de (80.95.252.5). As an answer to the preceding request it is allowed to pass the inbound firewall. Please note the resulting TTL of 51.

      No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
      168 16.916116 80.95.252.5 192.168.0.2 UDP Source port: nat-stun-port Destination port: 6883

      Frame 168 (98 bytes on wire, 98 bytes captured)
      Ethernet II, Src: SagemCom_62:13:65 (00:1e:74:62:13:65), Dst: EdimaxTe_ff:0d:91 (00:0e:2e:ff:0d:91)
      Internet Protocol, Src: 80.95.252.5 (80.95.252.5), Dst: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)
      Version: 4
      Header length: 20 bytes
      Differentiated Services Field: 0x00 (DSCP 0x00: Default; ECN: 0x00)
      Total Length: 84
      Identification: 0x0000 (0)
      Flags: 0x04 (Don't Fragment)
      Fragment offset: 0
      Time to live: 51
      Protocol: UDP (0x11)
      Header checksum: 0x3a8a [correct]
      Source: 80.95.252.5 (80.95.252.5)
      Destination: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)
      User Datagram Protocol, Src Port: nat-stun-port (3478), Dst Port: 6883 (6883)
      Source port: nat-stun-port (3478)
      Destination port: 6883 (6883)
      Length: 64
      Checksum: 0x5570 [correct]

      The third packet is the actual SIP registration request. Because answers to Port 6883 are allowed to pass the firewall it is used again as source port.

      No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
      169 17.039590 192.168.0.2 80.95.252.5 SIP Request: REGISTER sip:carpo.de

      Frame 169 (590 bytes on wire, 590 bytes captured)
      Ethernet II, Src: EdimaxTe_ff:0d:91 (00:0e:2e:ff:0d:91), Dst: SagemCom_62:13:65 (00:1e:74:62:13:65)
      Internet Protocol, Src: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2), Dst: 80.95.252.5 (80.95.252.5)
      User Datagram Protocol, Src Port: 6883 (6883), Dst Port: sip (5060)
      Source port: 6883 (6883)
      Destination port: sip (5060)
      Length: 556
      Checksum: 0x0efe [correct]
      Session Initiation Protocol
      Request-Line: REGISTER sip:carpo.de SIP/2.0
      Message Header

      And here is the answer. I got the SIP code 408 (Request Timeout) back within 5 ms! That's a really fast time out... As you can see the TTL is again 64 not 51 as it should be if the answer would be from 80.95.252.5.

      No. Time Source Destination Protocol Info
      170 17.045243 80.95.252.5 192.168.0.2 SIP Status: 408 Request Timeout (0 bindings)

      Frame 170 (355 bytes on wire, 355 bytes captured)
      Arrival Time: Feb 24, 2008 22:01:49.346333000
      [Time delta from previous captured frame: 0.005653000 seconds]
      [Time delta from previous displayed frame: 0.005653000 seconds]
      [Time since reference or first frame: 17.045243000 seconds]
      Frame Number: 170
      Frame Length: 355 bytes
      Capture Length: 355 bytes
      [Frame is marked: False]
      [Protocols in frame: eth:ip:udp:sip]
      [Coloring Rule Name: UDP]
      [Coloring Rule String: udp]
      Ethernet II, Src: SagemCom_62:13:65 (00:1e:74:62:13:65), Dst: EdimaxTe_ff:0d:91 (00:0e:2e:ff:0d:91)
      Internet Protocol, Src: 80.95.252.5 (80.95.252.5), Dst: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)
      Version: 4
      Header length: 20 bytes
      Differentiated Services Field: 0xb8 (DSCP 0x2e: Expedited Forwarding; ECN: 0x00)
      Total Length: 341
      Identification: 0x0001 (1)
      Flags: 0x04 (Don't Fragment)
      Fragment offset: 0
      Time to live: 64
      Protocol: UDP (0x11)
      Header checksum: 0x2bd0 [correct]
      Source: 80.95.252.5 (80.95.252.5)
      Destination: 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2)
      User Datagram Protocol, Src Port: sip (5060), Dst Port: 6883 (6883)
      Source port: sip (5060)
      Destination port: 6883 (6883)
      Length: 321
      Checksum: 0xffee [correct]
      Session Initiation Protocol
      Status-Line: SIP/2.0 408 Request Timeout
      Message Header

      More suggestions?

    7. #6
      Ashe's Avatar
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      Re: VoIP with Sky/Sagem F@st 2504

      I set up a Syslog server on a local machine and configured the Sagem box to forward the log messages to that machine. If using a softphone provided by the SIP provider Carpo (that's a Java application called Carposoftphone) I got for every SIP registration request the following Syslog message:

      02-25-2008 15:26:20 User.Warning 192.168.0.1 syslog: proxy.c:953 ERROR: proxy_response: list_get via failed

      With Carposoftphone there aren't any ICMP port unreachable or SIP 408 messages coming from the router. Nevertheless the SIP registration request is probably blocked too because there is no reply from the server.

      If using X-Lite (which is configured according http://www.carpo.com/voip/cms/com/en/page_3455.jsp) there are no Syslog messages but the well-known ICMP port unreachable messages.

      In the next step I reactivated the SIP accounts on my Fritz!Box (which is configured according http://www.carpo.com/voip/cms/com/en/page_4462.jsp). The SIP registration failed once more. The Syslog server recorded the following messages (first is the most current):

      02-25-2008 13:28:10 User.Warning 192.168.0.1 kernel: 34373004 (epc == 004086a4, ra == 00408688)
      02-25-2008 13:28:10 User.Warning 192.168.0.1 kernel: do_page_fault() #2: sending SIGSEGV to siproxd for invalid read access from
      02-25-2008 13:28:10 User.Warning 192.168.0.1 syslog: register.c:287 ERROR:tried registration with empty Contact header
      02-25-2008 13:28:10 User.Warning 192.168.0.1 syslog: register.c:287 ERROR:tried registration with empty Contact header

      There is apparently a SIP proxy function implemented on the Sagem F@st 2504 and -- obviously -- it is incompatible to my SIP providers and/or SIP clients.

      What's the most efficient way to contact/get help from Sky in this regard without getting standard phrases as an answer which miss the point completely? Unfortunately that's my experience from most German support hotlines and the BT hotline. :-(

    8. #7
      Isitme's Avatar
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      Re: VoIP with Sky/Sagem F@st 2504

      I am afraid you will not get much help from Sky, they will have no idea what you are talking about. They are likely to think you have been SIPping coffee and spilled some on the router.

      You best chance is to hope that Newsreader, James67 or one of the other really knowledgeable blocks pick you post up and can help you.

      TomD


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    9. #8
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      Re: VoIP with Sky/Sagem F@st 2504

      Quote Originally Posted by Ashe View Post
      What's the most efficient way to contact/get help from Sky in this regard without getting standard phrases as an answer which miss the point completely? Unfortunately that's my experience from most German support hotlines and the BT hotline. :-(

      Willkommen Ashe in der Welt der SKY BB.

      Es tut mir sehr leid für Sie da, wenn Sie dachten, Sie hätten ein Problem vor, werden Sie feststellen, dass Sie haben jetzt ein echtes Problem. Die technischen Mitarbeiter an Sky BB unmöglich sind (fast) zu einem Gespräch mit, und Sie werden warten Stunden am Telefon finden zu können, wer weiß, 10% von den Kenntnissen, um das Problem zu lösen. Ihre beste Chance der Hilfe ist hier in diesem Forum. Seien Sie ein wenig Geduld.

      RTB.

    10. #9
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      Re: VoIP with Sky/Sagem F@st 2504

      I doubt sky will provide any support for this as it is about using your connection as opposed to providing your connection.

      I'd try the sagem support if I were you.

    11. #10
      Ashe's Avatar
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      Re: VoIP with Sky/Sagem F@st 2504

      Quote Originally Posted by Isitme View Post
      You best chance is to hope that Newsreader, James67 or one of the other really knowledgeable blocks pick you post up and can help you.
      I really hope that!

      Quote Originally Posted by RupertTHEbare View Post
      Willkommen Ashe in der Welt der SKY BB.

      Es tut mir sehr leid für Sie da, wenn Sie dachten, Sie hätten ein Problem vor, werden Sie feststellen, dass Sie haben jetzt ein echtes Problem. Die technischen Mitarbeiter an Sky BB unmöglich sind (fast) zu einem Gespräch mit, und Sie werden warten Stunden am Telefon finden zu können, wer weiß, 10% von den Kenntnissen, um das Problem zu lösen. Ihre beste Chance der Hilfe ist hier in diesem Forum. Seien Sie ein wenig Geduld.

      RTB.
      Witzig. Ich musste jeden Satz 2x lesen, um zu erahnen, was Sie gemeint haben könnten. Im Vergleich mit Babelfish bevorzuge ich dann doch Englisch.

      Funny. I had to read every sentence twice to guess what you probably wanted to say. I'd say I prefer English to a Babelfish translation.

      Hint: Do a German-English Babelfish translation of this text to get a rough idea of how that sounds in German...

      BTW: I hope my English is better.

      Quote Originally Posted by reddwarfcrew View Post
      I doubt sky will provide any support for this as it is about using your connection as opposed to providing your connection.

      I'd try the sagem support if I were you.
      I tried. But I only found contact addresses for other products than broadband devices. The web support consists only of some manuals, drivers/firmware, a very short FAQ section, and a photo gallery.

     

     
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