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    Connection and membership woes

    This is a discussion on Connection and membership woes within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Hi, my membership to sky broadband is coming up to one year and i am seriously considering leaving sky's service. ...

    1. #1
      j0n_d's Avatar
      j0n_d is offline Sky User Member
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      Unhappy Connection and membership woes

      Hi,

      my membership to sky broadband is coming up to one year and i am seriously considering leaving sky's service. Since last October, i have had such problems with my connection. i have the max package at the moment and have never seen the 16mb speed at which sky boasts about. i joined this forum site some time ago and searched for some help/answers but nothing seemed to help when i first joined. I am only 1.6 miles from the exchange, i have my router connected to the test socket behind the master socket. i have adjusted the noise margin several times, but still my connection to the internet drops everyday and web pages seem to load so slowly, including skyuser

      whenever i switch on my laptop i have to reboot the router daily (everyday since having been with sky!!) tech support have told me to do several things and as soon as i say i have a connection to the net they seem happy with there support and then cut me loose.

      so i have put up with the daily reboots and gave up searching for any more help/advice, until now. I will give it one more shot with this company and so have returned to this site, to see if anything has changed or can be done to help.

      my current stats: Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
      WAN PPPoA 169976 229530 0 9370 43155 01:39:07
      LAN 10M/100M 1404 0 0 135 0 01:39:41
      WLAN 11M/54M 230938 179717 0 43660 9884 01:39:31


      ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
      Connection Speed 9392 kbps 606 kbps
      Line Attenuation 29.0 db 15.9 db
      Noise Margin 6.9 db 14.0 db


      I am running windows vista and use my connection wirelessly, i have the same problem when i hook it up wired. my xbox suffers the same drop in connection to the router.

      MANY MANY THANKS FOR YOUR REPLIES


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    3. #2
      IWasNotTheEnemy's Avatar
      IWasNotTheEnemy is offline Sky User Member
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      Re: Connection and membership woes

      try posting ur full stats (click 'get detailed stats') and the might shed some more light but at present your noise margin is limiting ur speed - are u using an extention of some sort?
      -------------------------------------------



      Useful Sticky: - How To Obtain Your Router Stats, BT Speed Test, Check For Test Socket

    4. #3
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      Re: Connection and membership woes

      Have you ever turned the UPnP off?

      http://www.skyuser.co.uk/tools/UPnP/




      ~ Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience ~

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    5. #4
      j0n_d's Avatar
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      Re: Connection and membership woes

      THANKS so much for your speedy reponses.

      Yes I have tried turning off the uPNP option on the router page settings, this didn't do anything to help.

      My full detailed stats are as follows, I would be so greatful if you could interpret them for me, and give any help.

      MANY MANY thanks again!

      /usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
      Status: Showtime Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 606 Kbps, Downstream rate = 8849 Kbps
      Link Power State: L0
      Mode: ADSL2+
      Channel: Fast
      Trellis: ON
      Line Status: No Defect
      Training Status: Showtime
      Down Up
      SNR (dB): 7.6 14.0
      Attn(dB): 29.0 15.9
      Pwr(dBm): 1.0 12.4
      Max(Kbps): 9024 708
      Rate (Kbps): 8849 606
      G.dmt framing
      K: 245(0) 19
      R: 10 16
      S: 1 8
      D: 64 8
      ADSL2 framing
      MSGc: 67 68
      B: 244 18
      M: 1 8
      T: 1 1
      R: 10 16
      S: 0.8823 7.5932
      L: 2312 177
      D: 64 8
      Counters
      SF: 1952972 1952970
      SFErr: 149152 1
      RS: 142567002 16600245
      RSCorr: 122193918 6
      RSUnCorr: 564164 0

      HEC: 125709 0
      OCD: 0 0
      LCD: 0 0
      Total Cells: 655843348 44988731
      Data Cells: 1014683 406985
      Drop Cells: 0
      Bit Errors: 0 0

      ES: 9890 1
      SES: 2897 0
      UAS: 14 15
      Total time = 8 hours 44 min 28 sec
      SF = 1952972
      CRC = 149152
      LOS = 40
      LOF = 0
      ES = 9890
      Latest 1 day time = 8 hours 44 min 28 sec
      SF = 1952972
      CRC = 149152
      LOS = 40
      LOF = 0
      ES = 9890
      Latest 15 minutes time = 14 min 28 sec
      SF = 53954
      CRC = 50
      LOS = 2
      LOF = 0
      ES = 37
      Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 55879
      CRC = 22
      LOS = 4
      LOF = 0
      ES = 15
      Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
      SF = 0
      CRC = 0
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 0
      15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 55879
      CRC = 73
      LOS = 3
      LOF = 0
      ES = 13
      15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 55879
      CRC = 39
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 28
      15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 55880
      CRC = 3405
      LOS = 1
      LOF = 0
      ES = 151

    6. #5
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      Re: Connection and membership woes

      I may be wrong but surely you will never get 16meg actual download rate as the product is not 1:1 contended?

      Hence you are probably sharing this bandwidth with up to either 20 or 50 people (not sure of the level of contention).

      To get a unconcontended service is expensive, and not just normal ADSL costs (all the home providers I have seen are contended). Look at somewhere for prices of uncontended ADSL and it will be huge compared to contended ADSL.

      Dan

    7. #6
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      Re: Connection and membership woes

      Well, contention ratios of 50:1 sound scary and probably do account for slow-down at some times of the day, but I wouldn't say you'll never get at least close to saturating you download link.

      Remember, contention is spread out over the whole exchange, so it's not 50 people sharing one 16Mbit connection, it'll be more like 500 people sharing one 160Mbit connection, so it's not the case that it just takes one person to be doing a download at the same time as you to half your download speed. At 16Mbit/sec, you would download about 150GB of data per day but the overwhelming majority of people would be downloading considerably less than 1GB per day, so contending the connection 50:1 would actually be quite comfortable.

      Of course, the fact that most people will be downloading their "less than 1GB" per day at similar times will make that situation somewhat less rosy, but the flip-side to that is that outside the peak period (which is roughly from when the kids start getting home from school, to late evening when people start going to bed), contention is not really a consideration.

      The big obstacles to achieving a throughput of data close to the maximum would be the layers of networking protocols which eat into your bandwidth, from TCP header data to ADSL error correction/detection data.

      Also, if you are getting lots of uncorrectable errors on your line, this will impact how smoothly the TCP streaming mechanism works. Normally, when you start a download, the server will send the first packet of data to you, and then immediately start the second and third packets, and so on, without even waiting for the acknowledgement for the first. Ideally, the data will end up being completely "streamed", being sent without interruption, with the acknowledgment (TCP ACK) packets always several packets behind.

      But if an uncorrectable error occurs on your line, your PC will have to send out a packet saying, "I didn't get packet 'n', resend it please." The server will duly oblige, but if you send too many of these "TCP NAK" packets, the server will reduce the size of its TCP transmit window and send fewer packets of data before it waits for a positive acknowledgment of receipt of the first. In the worst possible case, the server will send out one packet of data and then wait for a TCP ACK before sending the next. This would mean that for every packet of data (about 1.5kbytes) an additional delay of at least twice the latency (ping time) between you and the server would be introduced.

      That worst case scenario as actually very unlikely, but this effect explains how a few frequent errors on your line can result in a reduction in download speeds out of proportion to time taken to retransmit each lost packet.

      Hmmm, that was a long-winded way of saying "errors = bad", wasn't it.

    8. #7
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      Re: Connection and membership woes

      I agree with the attempt to speed up his connection - but not that you can expect the full speed.

      it'll be more like 500 people sharing one 160Mbit connection
      From working at an ISP i can tell you this is not the case - they do not even reserve 1/50th of a connection for you. It would be assumed that not everyone is hammering there connection at the same time. So as a guess it would probably be closer to....

      500 people sharing one 80Mbit connection

      or maybe even worse - but definitely not 500 people sharing one 160Mbit connection.

      They do not have 1/50th of 16meg spare around there network for every user - it just doesnt fund itself that way.

      Dan

    9. #8
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      Re: Connection and membership woes

      SF = 1952972
      CRC = 149152
      LOS = 40
      LOF = 0
      ES = 9890

      At some time during your 8 hours of stats, your router has registered a large amount of line/CRC errors above!
      The CRC's ideally should not exceed 0.1% of the SF figure. So during that period they shouldn't have been more than 1952. As you can see yours are way over that. If these stats were taken from the test socket behind the face plate with nothing else connected and no extension leads etc in use then the problem is almost certainly your line which is down to BT, but problem is if you tell BT you are having problems with Sky broadband they are unlikely to want to investigate. If it is the line and you change provider then your problems may continue.
      You could report intermitent noisey crackly line on voice calls to BT and see if you can get them to run some checks.

      These errors are almost certainly the cause of your problems.

    10. #9
      Isitme's Avatar
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      Re: Connection and membership woes

      the problem is almost certainly your line which is down to BT, but problem is if you tell BT you are having problems with Sky broadband they are unlikely to want to investigate. If it is the line and you change provider then your problems may continue.
      You could report intermitent noisey crackly line on voice calls to BT and see if you can get them to run some checks.
      In other words, if you phone BT to complain about the phone line, Don't mention Sky Broadband*

      If you have not checked from the Test socket, try that first, if you are running from, or even have extensions, that could be your problem.


      *Don't know how I missed this bit first time round
      Last edited by Isitme; 19-09-07 at 09:11 PM. Reason: Added info*

      TomD


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    11. #10
      j0n_d's Avatar
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      Re: Connection and membership woes

      Thanks for your answers!!

      I have been using the test socket for the past year so the results were from that connection, however I do have a extention coming from that also, so I will get new stats without the extention plugged in and then post them for someone to interpret for me when I get home from work

      Thanks again, will keep you posted.

     

     
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