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    Jsut enabled 5 hours ago. Going to cancel tomorrow

    This is a discussion on Jsut enabled 5 hours ago. Going to cancel tomorrow within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Originally Posted by Steve case Try this:- http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/route...ter-stats.html thanks i had already read that but hadnt read all teh way ...

    1. #11
      briggsy's Avatar
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      Re: Jsut enabled 5 hours ago. Going to cancel tomorrow

      Quote Originally Posted by Steve case View Post
      thanks i had already read that but hadnt read all teh way down to CRC


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    3. #12
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      Re: Jsut enabled 5 hours ago. Going to cancel tomorrow

      Also,
      a) Remember, Your previous ISP was most likely ADSL1 aka DSLMax, They use slighly different technologies, Thus, Causing the higher attenuation as the frequency changes.

      b) More "stress" on the line, Forcing ~8Mb on a line previously not capable of handling can cause line errors (CRC's), This is out of the control of Sky, In which case they cap you.

    4. #13
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      Re: Jsut enabled 5 hours ago. Going to cancel tomorrow

      Quote Originally Posted by FibreOptic View Post
      Also,
      a) Remember, Your previous ISP was most likely ADSL1 aka DSLMax, They use slighly different technologies, Thus, Causing the higher attenuation as the frequency changes.

      b) More "stress" on the line, Forcing ~8Mb on a line previously not capable of handling can cause line errors (CRC's), This is out of the control of Sky, In which case they cap you.
      I see, well after 2 hours of relativly stable 8MB connection, all of a sudden in the period of 4 minuets my CRC jumped from 9 to over 13,000 and then i lost sync, and the router resynced at 7616 Kbps

      Status: Showtime Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 768 Kbps, Downstream rate = 7616 Kbps
      Link Power State: L0
      Mode: G.DMT
      Channel: Interleave
      Trellis: ON
      Line Status: No Defect
      Training Status: Showtime
      Down Up
      SNR (dB): 7.3 13.0
      Attn(dB): 39.0 23.5
      Pwr(dBm): 19.8 9.3
      Max(Kbps): 8256 1184
      Rate (Kbps): 7616 768
      G.dmt framing
      K: 239(0) 25
      R: 16 16
      S: 1 8
      D: 64 8
      ADSL2 framing
      MSGc: 1 1
      B: 239 25
      M: 1 8
      T: 1 1
      R: 16 16
      S: 1.0666 8.6153
      L: 1920 208
      D: 64 8
      Counters
      SF: 20347 20345
      SFErr: 1 0
      RS: 1383654 172932
      RSCorr: 704 0
      RSUnCorr: 1 0

      HEC: 1 0
      OCD: 0 0
      LCD: 0 0
      Total Cells: 6224729 0
      Data Cells: 18754 0
      Drop Cells: 0
      Bit Errors: 0 0

      ES: 1 0
      SES: 0 0
      UAS: 22 0
      Total time = 6 min 19 sec
      SF = 20347
      CRC = 1
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 1
      Latest 1 day time = 6 min 19 sec
      SF = 20347
      CRC = 1
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 1
      Latest 15 minutes time = 6 min 19 sec
      SF = 20347
      CRC = 1
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 1
      this is confusing me so much i dont know what action to take.

    5. #14
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      Re: Jsut enabled 5 hours ago. Going to cancel tomorrow

      a) Based on your highest recorded attenuation (40db), Your line, Providing it is error free and has a direct connection to the Sky LLU Network (No Additional, Alarms, Sky Boxes), Can handle ~9Mb, Near enough what you are getting.

      b) Stabling the speed, You could have a problem with an intermittent SNR, The SNR is rapidly decreasing and your line is having trouble coping, Anything below ~6-7db can be considered "Breaking Point" were you can experience problems.

      c) CRC's Juding by your stats, Again, They are taken of such a short period, Consider downloading, ftp://ftp.mirror.ac.uk/mirror/ftp.fr...AGES-amd64/6.2
      The "Disc 1 & Disc 2" files, They are fairly large. Do this and continue to browse and download as you would, Then take these stats after ~30 Mins.

      d) You have done the basics right;
      1) Connected to Master Sockets - Test Socket - NO Phones, Sky Boxes.
      2) Swapped MicroFilter, Yes, Seems a little basic, Again can fix small issues.

    6. #15
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      Re: Jsut enabled 5 hours ago. Going to cancel tomorrow

      Thank you, i did as you said, i downloaded both files @ an avrage 797K/s
      the router is plugged into the test socket still and its using a brand new microfilter supplied with the router.

      Status: Showtime Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 768 Kbps, Downstream rate = 7616 Kbps
      Link Power State: L0
      Mode: G.DMT
      Channel: Interleave
      Trellis: ON
      Line Status: No Defect
      Training Status: Showtime
      Down Up
      SNR (dB): 6.0 13.0
      Attn(dB): 39.0 23.5
      Pwr(dBm): 19.8 9.3
      Max(Kbps): 8256 1184
      Rate (Kbps): 7616 768
      G.dmt framing
      K: 239(0) 25
      R: 16 16
      S: 1 8
      D: 64 8
      ADSL2 framing
      MSGc: 1 1
      B: 239 25
      M: 1 8
      T: 1 1
      R: 16 16
      S: 1.0666 8.6153
      L: 1920 208
      D: 64 8
      Counters
      SF: 188725 188723
      SFErr: 239 0
      RS: 12833330 1604145
      RSCorr: 9814711 8
      RSUnCorr: 485 0

      HEC: 176 0
      OCD: 0 0
      LCD: 0 0
      Total Cells: 57627107 0
      Data Cells: 31617717 0
      Drop Cells: 0
      Bit Errors: 0 0

      ES: 143 0
      SES: 1 0
      UAS: 22 0
      Total time = 54 min 1 sec
      SF = 188725
      CRC = 239
      LOS = 1
      LOF = 0
      ES = 143
      Latest 1 day time = 54 min 1 sec
      SF = 188725
      CRC = 239
      LOS = 1
      LOF = 0
      ES = 143
      Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 1 sec
      SF = 31876
      CRC = 169
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 93
      Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 52930
      CRC = 62
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 44
      Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
      SF = 0
      CRC = 0
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 0
      15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 52931
      CRC = 5
      LOS = 1
      LOF = 0
      ES = 4
      15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 50988
      CRC = 3
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 2
      it seems im over that 0.1% CRC. i wonder if this is a result of it being peak time.
      Last edited by briggsy; 22-06-07 at 11:52 PM.

    7. #16
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      Re: Jsut enabled 5 hours ago. Going to cancel tomorrow

      Quote Originally Posted by briggsy View Post
      it seems im over that 0.1% CRC. i wonder if this is a result of it being peak time.
      The 0.1% figure is only a "rule of thumb" and gives a sense of scale to the problem. I think it more likely that the errors were down to your noise margin which had dropped to 6db at the time you took the stats. 6db, in my experience is a level where errors start to increase. Best to set a noise margin where it never drops below about 7db for a stable connection.

      If you haven't seen it already then the first sticky in my signature at the bottom of this post gives more info on this.

      The information you've given so far certainly confirms that you have a line noise issue and probably, at least some of this is down to your home phone wiring . If you can fix this you will be able to achieve the full potential for your line which is ~11500kbps once uncapped and put on ADSL2+. If you can only reduce the noise you will still see an improvement to your current connection though not the full whack.
      Last edited by Saturday; 23-06-07 at 12:28 AM.

    8. #17
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      Re: Jsut enabled 5 hours ago. Going to cancel tomorrow

      Quote Originally Posted by Saturday View Post
      The 0.1% figure is only a "rule of thumb" and gives a sense of scale to the problem. I think it more likely that the errors were down to your noise margin which had dropped to 6db at the time you took the stats. 6db, in my experience is a level where errors start to increase. Best to set a noise margin where it never drops below about 7db for a stable connection.

      If you haven't seen it already then the first sticky in my signature at the bottom of this post gives more info on this.

      The information you've given so far certainly confirms that you have a line noise issue and probably, at least some of this is down to your home phone wiring . If you can fix this you will be able to achieve the full potential for your line which is ~11500kbps once uncapped and put on ADSL2+. If you can only reduce the noise you will still see an improvement to your current connection though not the full whack.
      Ah thank you it all becomes a lot more clear now. thank you so much. so basicaly have to rewire my extenshion with some Cat5e. and also buy a new Master socket.

    9. #18
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      Re: Jsut enabled 5 hours ago. Going to cancel tomorrow

      It is always best to avoid extensions if at all possible and plug your router directly into a replacement filtered master socket faceplate then run ethernet cable to each PC.

      That's the ideal but of course that doesn't suit everyone's personal situation. I'd recommend you start by buying and fitting a replacement filtered faceplate to your master socket (about a 10 minute DIY job costing <15). These things can often work wonders and if you would like your router to run off an extension, provided you are able to dedicate the extension to the router then you can wire it to the unfiltered connectors and get an excellent result.

      You'll find a great deal of useful advice about such things in the cabling and faceplate help forum.

    10. #19
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      Re: Jsut enabled 5 hours ago. Going to cancel tomorrow

      Just an update, i installed my extension and now i can receive 9MB sync upstairs. however i still seem t have a noise problem as in peak hours the CRC errors go wild almost 1000 in one 5 mins. as does the noise go from 9 to 5! it was the same if i plugged it into the master socket. a BT engineer recently come around and had to do some work on the line entering my house and had to put a junctionbox on the outside of my house as the outside line was not long enough. could this be a BT problem?

      my BT line goes through two junction boxes before it gets to my master socket. the line from the junction box to my master socket inside my home is extremely old and poor quality, infact the BT engineer had to use a different wire pair in it as the normal one was degraded.

      i understand its normal to get lower SNR during peaketimes but the shift of my SNR seems rather rediculas. i still soemtiems get lots 30,000 CRC hours doinging peak time with a Noise of 7.1db.
      but hwen im not on peak hours i get crazy CRC erros like this....
      Total time = 4 hours 12 sec
      SF = 845827
      CRC = 0
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 0
      that was taken after downloading 2GB from newsgroups at fullspeed.
      >.<
      Last edited by briggsy; 29-06-07 at 06:25 AM.

    11. #20
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      Re: Jsut enabled 5 hours ago. Going to cancel tomorrow

      I don't believe the downward shift you are experiencing is that unusual. I have exactly the same problem. To overcome it I used the Mognuts utility to set the target noise margin to a higher value (14 dB, assuming I do this in the "quiet" part of the day when the high line noise is not present). Of course that means that the router syncs a somewhat lower speed (in my case about 6800 kbps comared with the 7800 I could get if I just use the default value of 7dB). However it means that my connection is stable through the evening period (though I do still get some errors).

      Using the RouterStats utility I have recorded my noise margin continuously for several weeks now. In the quiet part of the day it is typically 14-15 dB, but it can jump suddenly down by 3db at any part of the day and then jump back up several hours later. Then during the evening (from about 8.30 onwards it starts to fall, until around 11pm it reaches a minimum, having fallen by about 6dB. You can probably understand from this why the default value of 7db is hopelessly inadequate to handle the changing noise levels on my line. This changing noise is totally outside my control. (Originally it was made even worse due to noise associated with my extension wiring, but I sorted that out by using an ADSL Nation flitered faceplate). I think the evening noise problems are caused by cross-talk in the exchange, as more and more broadband users go online. I have said before in this forum that I am sure others will experience similar problems, and you appear to be in that catergory. Based on my own experience my advice is:-

      1. Use the Mognuts utility to set your target noise marguin to 14 dB (assuming it is not during the high-noise problem period) and see if your connection remains stable, and your errors acceptable.

      2. Use the RouterStats utility to record your noise margin - ideally from early morning until late at night and see how it changes

      3. If you have any extensions connected to your master socket, take a look at the "cabling and faceplate help" part of the forum. In my case I managed to improve things significantly by fitting the filtered faceplate. Others have found that disconnecting the orange wire with white bands (No 3) gives a significant improvement.

      You may subsequently find you can reduce the target noise margin below 14 dB, and get a slightly higher connection speed. In my case I could probably reduce it to about 12dB. However my theory (as yet unproven) is that noise on my line is increasing slightly generally as more and more people take up broadband and get connected to my exchange. I am therefore leaving it at 14 db at the moment, because the additional improvement in speed of 2 or 3 hundred kbps is not that important to me.
      Useful Links
      Download RouterStats (useful utility for continuously recording noise margin)

     

     
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