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    Dumb Question - BT Line?

    This is a discussion on Dumb Question - BT Line? within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Originally Posted by Oneiros Sky believe it is (the bigwigs anyway) and so they hand this info out to the ...

    1. #21
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      Re: Dumb Question - BT Line?

      Quote Originally Posted by Oneiros View Post
      Sky believe it is (the bigwigs anyway) and so they hand this info out to the drones. I don't speak perfect legalese but I know Sky has bigger lawyers than us, so who am I to argue?
      They didn't to the drones I spoke to.

      If paying line rental is a condition, then the T&C's should say so.

      They don't.


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    3. #22
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      Re: Dumb Question - BT Line?

      Quote Originally Posted by jayhab View Post
      Whether they believe it is or not, if it doesn't say so in their T&Cs, they can't claim a breach.

      If Sky has better lawyers, they'd have worded their T&Cs better to mean what they believe it to mean. 'Bt compatible, fixed and operational' does not infer that you must pay BT for line rental.
      Indeed. It would say "by compatible, we mean that the Subscriber must be paying line rental to British Telecom". Or it would say "In addition, line rental must be being paid to British Telecom". Or "Sky Broadband is not available to customers who pay line rental to a provider other than BT"

      If they're going to be picky about what "compatible" means, then they need to define it.

      Their wording actually does what they want it to, which is to exclude lines on other networks, such asTeleWest.

    4. #23
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      Re: Dumb Question - BT Line?

      Just my tuppence worth:

      Oneiros, I'm sure you're wrong, not just because, as others have pointed out, the Sky T&Cs don't say anything about having to pay line rental to BT, but also for a commercial reason. There must be millions of people in the country who have a BT line but pay line rental to Talk Talk or some other company. Do you really think a company as smart and commercially savvy as Sky would cut itself off from that huge market of potential customers, when there's no technical reason to do so?

      The country's entire fixed phone line network is owned and maintained by BT, because they (when they were part of the Post Office) had a monopoly on that. All Sky are saying is that you have to be on that network, i.e. not on a cable or mobile phone network, to get their broadband.

    5. #24
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      Re: Dumb Question - BT Line?

      Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth View Post
      They didn't to the drones I spoke to.

      If paying line rental is a condition, then the T&C's should say so.

      They don't.

      If I recall your story correctly at least one of them did, when you called back in, they said precisely that, then had to go off and have a discussion before they changed their mind.

      Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth View Post
      Indeed. It would say "by compatible, we mean that the Subscriber must be paying line rental to British Telecom". Or it would say "In addition, line rental must be being paid to British Telecom". Or "Sky Broadband is not available to customers who pay line rental to a provider other than BT"

      If they're going to be picky about what "compatible" means, then they need to define it.

      Their wording actually does what they want it to, which is to exclude lines on other networks, such asTeleWest.
      Fine I'll shut up and not bother sharing the wisdom of my experience (practical, not theoretical or legally-speaking) and just nod which vacant eyes when someone doesnt like an answer.

      Quote Originally Posted by greenwich View Post
      Just my tuppence worth:

      Oneiros, I'm sure you're wrong, not just because, as others have pointed out, the Sky T&Cs don't say anything about having to pay line rental to BT, but also for a commercial reason. There must be millions of people in the country who have a BT line but pay line rental to Talk Talk or some other company. Do you really think a company as smart and commercially savvy as Sky would cut itself off from that huge market of potential customers, when there's no technical reason to do so?

      The country's entire fixed phone line network is owned and maintained by BT, because they (when they were part of the Post Office) had a monopoly on that. All Sky are saying is that you have to be on that network, i.e. not on a cable or mobile phone network, to get their broadband.
      Is this the same smart and commercially savvy company that have attempted to restrict it's users to using a router that frankly operates better as a coaster? Or perhaps the same commercially savy company that doesnt allow it's most experienced operatives near it's email system and instead leaves it to those who previously were employed to say "have you tried changing the batteries in your remote?". Oh no I have it, you mean the smart and commercially savvy company that continues to ignore the problems it users are having and finds new excuses everyday to have it's technical support close tickets without any real resolution just so that they can say they are closing more customer issues everyday, that company right?

      (For the record I already told you the technical reason they wouldnt do it, hey dont have a contract to get BT to fix faults on lines rented from other voice suppliers)

      Sorry for the bad news folks, I'm just the messenger who now has a gaping hole in his chest where you all decided you didnt like what I had to say at once.

      By the way, you might want to go through my previous posts again and note that i used the phrase "at present" a couple of times, this may be an indication of a coming change which woud be beneficial to anyone interested in this thread.

      And now I'll stop bothering you by stating something you don't like, I'll see if I can find a handy yes man for you instead.
      Last edited by Oneiros; 29-04-07 at 11:21 AM.

    6. #25
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      Re: Dumb Question - BT Line?

      handbags at dawn.....

    7. #26
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      Re: Dumb Question - BT Line?

      Quote Originally Posted by Oneiros View Post
      Is this the same smart and commercially savvy company that have attempted to restrict it's users to using a router that frankly operates better as a coaster?
      It makes excellent commercial sense. You give the customers a cheap router that costs you, say, 10 per customer wholesale. Say 10% of those routers go wrong and you have to send out a replacement. So that's 11 per customer on average. That's still more profitable than spending 12 per customer on having a more reliable router in the first place. And of course it means your tech support team can be trained in only one router.

      Quote Originally Posted by Oneiros View Post
      Or perhaps the same commercially savy company that doesnt allow it's most experienced operatives near it's email system and instead leaves it to those who previously were employed to say "have you tried changing the batteries in your remote?".
      The customers are paying to call an 0870 line to talk to cheap labour. Again, excellent commercial sense.

      Quote Originally Posted by Oneiros View Post
      Oh no I have it, you mean the smart and commercially savvy company that continues to ignore the problems it users are having and finds new excuses everyday to have it's technical support close tickets without any real resolution just so that they can say they are closing more customer issues everyday, that company right?
      See above. I think you might try using a dictionary to look up the meaning of 'commercial' and 'savvy'. If I had meant that Sky is a lovely company that's happy to sacrifice profit in order to be lovely to customers, I'd have said so. I didn't.

      If you think Sky is not commercially savvy, ask BSB or ON Digital. Wait - you can't, because Sky blew them out of the water with its sharp commercial sense.

      Quote Originally Posted by Oneiros View Post
      (For the record I already told you the technical reason they wouldnt do it, hey dont have a contract to get BT to fix faults on lines rented from other voice suppliers)
      That's not a technical reason. Why miss out on a market of 5 million customers (or whatever it is) because you're afraid that if a tiny minority of them have a line problem, it will be hassle (their hassle, mainly) to get it fixed? Commercial sense is not the same thing as playing it safe and taking care to be ever so lovely to all customers.

     

     
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