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    Falling Noise Margins, Packet Loss.... Best Thing To Do?

    This is a discussion on Falling Noise Margins, Packet Loss.... Best Thing To Do? within the Sky Broadband help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; Hi All, I've just recently moved to the MAX package from Connect. I did have problems with Connect, as my ...

    1. #1
      SteCole77's Avatar
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      Falling Noise Margins, Packet Loss.... Best Thing To Do?

      Hi All,


      I've just recently moved to the MAX package from Connect. I did have problems with Connect, as my speed could be almost the full 8MB or a lowly 10kBps.
      On the whole it was fairly stable and for example, online gaming was not a problem most of the time.

      Now i'm on MAX, i seem to have a really unstable connection. From reading other sections of the forum for help, advice and tips etc i have noticed my Noise Margin falling and rising through out the day.
      So i have rebooted my router when its at its lowest to try and setup to work well throughout the day.

      I have used the TCP Optimizer and i think that got me an initial boost on my connection but it remains unstable.
      I can get downloads at over 1600kBps and am happy with that... if only it where stable.

      I used the NetGear Config tool as posted by dholdi
      Sky Netgear DG834GT utility version 0.3


      I got this... ....

      /usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
      Status: Showtime Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 764 Kbps, Downstream rate = 15323 Kbps
      Link Power State: L0
      Mode: ADSL2+
      Channel: Fast
      Trellis: ON
      Line Status: No Defect
      Training Status: Showtime
      Down Up
      SNR (dB): 9.8 13.0
      Attn(dB): 24.5 12.9
      Pwr(dBm): 1.3 12.4
      Max(Kbps): 15564 864
      Rate (Kbps): 15323 764
      G.dmt framing
      K: 239(0) 24
      R: 16 16
      S: 1 8
      D: 64 8
      ADSL2 framing
      MSGc: 59 68
      B: 238 23
      M: 1 8
      T: 2 1
      R: 16 16
      S: 0.4980 7.7037
      L: 4096 216
      D: 64 8
      Counters
      SF: 2695460 2695458
      SFErr: 1550352 1
      RS: 350409888 22911393
      RSCorr: 29563719 0
      RSUnCorr: 5206609 0

      HEC: 1551617 0
      OCD: 192889 0
      LCD: 8 0
      Total Cells: 1557456399 39841490
      Data Cells: 690889 232641
      Drop Cells: 0
      Bit Errors: 0 0

      ES: 27545 1
      SES: 25321 0
      UAS: 14 17
      Total time = 12 hours 7 min 30 sec
      SF = 2695460
      CRC = 1550352
      LOS = 20
      LOF = 0
      ES = 27545
      Latest 1 day time = 12 hours 7 min 30 sec
      SF = 2695460
      CRC = 1550352
      LOS = 20
      LOF = 0
      ES = 27545
      Latest 15 minutes time = 7 min 30 sec
      SF = 27857
      CRC = 27739
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 451
      Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 55590
      CRC = 55362
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 900
      Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
      SF = 0
      CRC = 0
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 0
      15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 55591
      CRC = 55375
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 900
      15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 55590
      CRC = 55354
      LOS = 1
      LOF = 0
      ES = 900
      15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 55591
      CRC = 55349
      LOS = 1
      LOF = 0
      ES = 900

      If anyone understands all that pls let me know..

      I generaly find after rebooting i can things back to fairly normal but its no always great... can be iratic ping times etc in game.

      So i tried L8NC as recomended by MaxPing and got the following:


      My connection went really bad, the big red spike i guess but was pretty much ok after a reboot... oh times are out by an hour.

      So i left my pc on over night to test the line whilst not being used and nothin is on in the house.


      So i'm pretty sure something is not right some where!!

      Any ideas anybody? Gonna try and get through to someone at Sky today but i just worry they'll just either fob me of or chop my connection if half or something else unpleasent. Had to chase them so many times just to get onto MAX!

      I have a fairly ok understanding of how it all supposed to work.. so any ideas, sugestions, thoughts... all welcome!


      Thanks in advance!


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    3. #2
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      Re: Falling Noise Margins, Packet Loss.... Best Thing To Do?

      Your line is generating 1000's of CRC errors. You need to plug into the test socket behind the face plate of your master if you have an NTE5 to isolate the problem to the BT line or your internal wiring. If you dont have an NTE5 master socket then I would disconnect any extension wiring and again plug straight into the master. Run for a few hours and see if you generate the same level of errors.
      I had a very similar problem and disconnecting the bell wire on all the extensions has cured the problem.

    4. #3
      SteCole77's Avatar
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      Re: Falling Noise Margins, Packet Loss.... Best Thing To Do?

      Hiya, thanks for the advice.


      Whats a CRC error?

      I'll have to do some messing about to test it at the Test socket... my pc is 2 floors up you see. So there is a fair bit of extension used.
      Although in the past i have tested my connection at the test socket and found no difference... back when i was first connected to Connect.

      But i'll give it a shot anyway.

    5. #4
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      Re: Falling Noise Margins, Packet Loss.... Best Thing To Do?

      Your line is definitely the worst anyone has posted so far

      If you look at the last four 15 minute periods there's almost a 1:1 relationship between superframes and CRCs. That means the vast majority of data is arriving corrupt and is having to be retransmitted. The vast majority of that will also be arriving corrupt and that will have to be retransmitted ..... and so it goes on.

      Not surprisingly you also have 100% errored seconds (another record).

      Whatever the cause (and as advised you'll have to test a few things) unless you get this sorted you'll never get anything approaching a satisfactory connection.

      Frankly, if it wasn't for your low attenuation you probably wouldn't have a connection at all.

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      Re: Falling Noise Margins, Packet Loss.... Best Thing To Do?

      Quote Originally Posted by SteCole77 View Post
      Whats a CRC error?
      I dont know! But I do know alot of them is very bad!!!
      Last edited by Saturday; 26-03-07 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Fixed quote

    7. #6
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      Re: Falling Noise Margins, Packet Loss.... Best Thing To Do?

      Quote Originally Posted by SteCole77 View Post
      Whats a CRC error?
      Quoting myself:
      Quote Originally Posted by Saturday

      CRC (Cyclic Redundancy Check).

      Data is transmitted as streams of octets (8-bit bytes) through a network. A TCP module at the far end sends back an acknowledgement for packets which have been successfully received. It checks for damaged bytes by using a checksum; one is added for each block of data before it is sent, and checked at the receiver.

      The checksum is augmented by the use of a CRC integrity check at layer 2. Software and hardware errors that introduce errors in packets between CRC-protected hops are common. A 16-bit TCP checksum catches most of these errors.

      In simple terms, if any packets fail the check they will be recorded as CRC errors. The number of CRC errors recorded must be looked at in relation to the total number of packets transmitted. I am not aware of any standard formula which would indicate whether a given level of CRC is acceptable or unacceptable. Personally I use a "rule of thumb". In any event CRC must not be looked at in isolation; it is quite possible for instance to have a "low" level of CRC but a high level of errored seconds/loss of signal and vice versa.

    8. #7
      SteCole77's Avatar
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      Re: Falling Noise Margins, Packet Loss.... Best Thing To Do?

      Thanks guys.

      At least i have a small claim to fame.... 'Worst Line Posted So Far'...

      I see that my line is obviously some what fuzzy to say the least!

      I thought i might have fixed it yesterday:



      But as you can see the packet loss comes back after a bit. Just out of wanting to try something, i changed the filter that my router plugs into. It seemed to work well at first but maybe the line got some kind of clean reset or something. I don't know but it didn't last lol.

      I tried to test it over night at the master socket but i obviously didn't do it right as i set it up wirelesly.. wirelessly... hmhhmm ... (spelling champ here)
      on a different comp.

      I'll have to drag a box down today and leave it running whilst i'm at work and see what it does plugged into the test socket.

    9. #8
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      Re: Falling Noise Margins, Packet Loss.... Best Thing To Do?

      /usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
      Status: Showtime Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 764 Kbps, Downstream rate = 15323 Kbps
      Link Power State: L0
      Mode: ADSL2+
      Channel: Fast
      Trellis: ON
      Line Status: No Defect
      Training Status: Showtime
      Down Up
      SNR (dB): 9.1 13.5
      Attn(dB): 24.5 12.8
      Pwr(dBm): 921.6 12.4
      Max(Kbps): 16588 864
      Rate (Kbps): 15323 764
      G.dmt framing
      K: 239(0) 24
      R: 16 16
      S: 1 8
      D: 64 8
      ADSL2 framing
      MSGc: 59 68
      B: 238 23
      M: 1 8
      T: 2 1
      R: 16 16
      S: 0.4980 7.7037
      L: 4096 216
      D: 64 8
      Counters
      SF: 1085188 1085186
      SFErr: 35 1
      RS: 141074490 9224081
      RSCorr: 2383079 0
      RSUnCorr: 806 0

      HEC: 33 0
      OCD: 0 0
      LCD: 0 0
      Total Cells: 634864207 31663447
      Data Cells: 1338793 461428
      Drop Cells: 0
      Bit Errors: 0 0

      ES: 29 1
      SES: 9 0
      UAS: 14 17
      Total time = 4 hours 53 min 6 sec
      SF = 1085188
      CRC = 35
      LOS = 9
      LOF = 0
      ES = 29
      Latest 1 day time = 4 hours 53 min 6 sec
      SF = 1085188
      CRC = 35
      LOS = 9
      LOF = 0
      ES = 29
      Latest 15 minutes time = 8 min 6 sec
      SF = 30019
      CRC = 1
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 1
      Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 55591
      CRC = 2
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 1
      Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
      SF = 0
      CRC = 0
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 0
      15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 55590
      CRC = 1
      LOS = 0
      LOF = 0
      ES = 2
      15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 55591
      CRC = 0
      LOS = 1
      LOF = 0
      ES = 1
      15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
      SF = 55590
      CRC = 2
      LOS = 1
      LOF = 0
      ES = 1


      Can you believe it?? All those CRC's are gone!!! Mostly anyway... i've not had chance to test it at the Test socket yet but it looks better already!

      Also my max speed has gone up from 15564 to 16588!!

      All i've done is add in a DNS address i saw some else quote to help somebody else with a diff problem.

      I thought 'It can't hurt to try' so added it in....

      Anybody got any ideas?

      ...................
      Edit

      Just when i thought it was all going well....



      Over 7hrs of error free action!!
      Last edited by SteCole77; 27-03-07 at 09:51 PM.

    10. #9
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      Re: Falling Noise Margins, Packet Loss.... Best Thing To Do?

      Switch it back to the other DNS and see if the problem appears again. CRC's are caused by data collisions or noise. It is possible that the path leading to the particular DNS you were using was suffering a large amount of corruption. Equally, it is possible that it was noise generated by a local piece of machinery that they just happen to have switched off when you moved the DNS!!

    11. #10
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      Re: Falling Noise Margins, Packet Loss.... Best Thing To Do?

      SteCole77 i was wondering what dns addresses are you using??
      thanks

     

     
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