Your forum username:
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up


    Welcome to Sky User - The Unofficial Support Forum for everything Sky! - Proudly helping over 65k members.


    Advertisement

    Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
    Results 11 to 20 of 21
    Like Tree6Likes

    UK to force telecom firms to spy on British citizens

    This is a discussion on UK to force telecom firms to spy on British citizens within the General Computing and Internet forums, part of the Community channel category; Am I the only one who thinks that this type of thing is necessary to help in the fight against ...

    1. #11
      Isitme's Avatar
      Isitme is offline Sky User Moderator
      Exchange: Bannockburn
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sky Hub SR102
      Sky TV: Sky+ HD
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
      Location
      Central Scotland
      Posts
      34,256
      Thanks
      65
      Thanked 1,655 Times in 1,616 Posts

      Re: UK to force telecom firms to spy on British citizens

      Am I the only one who thinks that this type of thing is necessary to help in the fight against crime, or terrorism? As far as I am concerned anything that helps prevent another 7/7 or Pan Am attack can only be welcomed. For those who have forgotten already, here's what happened in London on the 7th July, 2005 - 7 July 2005 London bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and just for good measure what happened over Lockerbie on 21st December, 1988.

      As for hiding behind encryption or VPN, here's a what if. A Police investigator is watch the crowds shopping in the middle of Manchester, one guy is dressed all in black wearing a ski mask, dodging from doorway to doorway another is walking along with his wife and kids doing a bit of window shopping. Who is going to raise the most suspicion? The same goes for hiding on line, the authorities are not complete idiots and anyone trying to hide will raise suspicion. They know that criminals and terrorists are going to try to hide their activities on line so will be looking for such behaviour. The message is clear, if you want to draw attention to yourself, try to hide behind encryption or VPNs.

      They same goes for the new flying restrictions many are moaning about. I am surprised it has taken the authorites so long to realise that replacing the battery in a phone/tablet or laptop with explosives was a big hole in airline security.

      We have our freedom and if to keep it, we have to give up a bit of our privacy, so be it.

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.






    2. Advertisement
    3. #12
      jrfer's Avatar
      jrfer is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange: Rushden
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro
      Router: Sky Hub SR101
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Jul 2007
      Location
      Northants
      Posts
      250
      Thanks
      2
      Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

      Re: UK to force telecom firms to spy on British citizens

      Quote Originally Posted by Isitme View Post
      We have our freedom and if to keep it, we have to give up a bit of our privacy, so be it.
      I would go along with that if it was true.

      Unfortunately we already seem to be one of the most surveilled nations in the World without all this current crap.

      The next step will be CCTV in our front rooms courtesy of smart TV sets. Anyone taping over the camera can expect a flying visit from the thought police.

      The terrorist has won when all the world has to live in a police state.

    4. #13
      Scubbie's Avatar
      Scubbie is offline Sky User Moderator
      Exchange: 02392
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sky Q Hub ER110
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Mar 2010
      Location
      Near Portsmouth
      Posts
      28,200
      Thanks
      842
      Thanked 2,223 Times in 2,092 Posts

      Re: UK to force telecom firms to spy on British citizens

      I'm sorry, but my answer is that this is unacceptable.

      The law was that the Police, and only the Police, could tap a phone line only if there was sufficient evidence for them to get a warrant. The same was true for intercepting your mail. Sure this has been extended to include bodies such as Customs & Excise and the DSS, but it was never intended to be fore everything all the time when no evidence existed.

      Blanket surveillance of every conversation, every email, every IM or PM, every web page you visit, everything you exchange with anyone, where you have been and who else was there at the same time is way over the top for terrorism. If the UK government do this, then us infidels have lost. We no longer live in a free society.

      Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro: Connected at 80,000 kbps / 20,000 kbps
      Previous ADSL2+ Speed 19999 kbps 1153 kbps, Line Attenuation 17.5 db 6.9 db, Noise Margin 7.5 dB 8.7 dB
      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

    5. #14
      coipu's Avatar
      coipu is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Lede on ECI Modem/pfSense
      Sky TV: Cord Cut
      Join Date
      Dec 2012
      Location
      Wherever I lay my VPN
      Posts
      530
      Thanks
      32
      Thanked 39 Times in 37 Posts

      Re: UK to force telecom firms to spy on British citizens

      Probable cause + warrant is the only way that this level of surveillance should be allowed. Laws like this being announced and passed all in the same week are dodgy as hell, no time for complaint or interference by the population. The apathy and belief of the bull**** spread by the Government about how you are being protected from Abdullah who is hiding round every corner really amaze me, do you for one second believe this will save one life? I think that any bombers/terrorists that are even remotely capable would already be using encrypted burner mobiles and fully encrypted communications along with public wifi spots+vpn+tor for any online research. This already bypasses everything the Government has done. Yet again a basic lack of understanding of the problems and a session of happy stable door shutting from parliament instead of actually dealing with the actual problem. Oh and a happy coincidence of catching the 68kk paedophiles that reside in this country too! I reckon we are never more than 6' away from a paedo... they must be holding the super rat!

    6. #15
      davews's Avatar
      davews is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Sky Broadband Unlimited
      Router: Non Sky Router
      Sky TV: none
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Posts
      59
      Thanks
      0
      Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

      Re: UK to force telecom firms to spy on British citizens

      There is a lot of confused information being put out by the media (and politicians too, who by and large are not techical people).
      It is assumed we are talking about 'meta data'. For telephone traffic that is pretty well defined - ie the number called and its duration. That is already recorded anyway for billing purposes so is largely not a concern. Noting of course that PAYG mobiles in general cannot be traced down to an individual.

      With web browsing and email it is a totally different matter. The ISP can clearly record what IP addresses are accessed by each of their customers. With their own email services (eg @sky.com addresses) they can also if they wish see the content of all mails. But email passing via external email providers (user own domain name, Yahoo, GMail) are a different matter. In many cases the traffic between the mail servers and customers is sent encrypted (including headers) so nothing can be recorded other than the customer is accessing an external email (or webmail) server.

      Until these finer points of what is actually recorded and by who are answered I remain confused....

    7. #16
      coipu's Avatar
      coipu is offline Sky User Member
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Lede on ECI Modem/pfSense
      Sky TV: Cord Cut
      Join Date
      Dec 2012
      Location
      Wherever I lay my VPN
      Posts
      530
      Thanks
      32
      Thanked 39 Times in 37 Posts

      Re: UK to force telecom firms to spy on British citizens

      They have been very clear already. Mobile data includes the number you called duration and location and the time of day, same with texts sans duration ofc. This coupled with the fact that they already have direct access without court order to all providers systems for realtime monitoring too worries me that a more aggressive logging of all content could be added too (but that bit is just my opinion, although it's technically possible). Web is everything, sites you visit, servers you connect to,emails and contents(unless you encrypt like me) times durations the lot. The only partially good news here is that there is a time limit on the life of this legislation built in, I expect they can extend that if it suits them though.

      https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...-drip-bill.pdf i think is the correct link

    8. #17
      Scubbie's Avatar
      Scubbie is offline Sky User Moderator
      Exchange: 02392
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sky Q Hub ER110
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Mar 2010
      Location
      Near Portsmouth
      Posts
      28,200
      Thanks
      842
      Thanked 2,223 Times in 2,092 Posts

      Re: UK to force telecom firms to spy on British citizens

      Emails via MSN/Hotmail/Livemail/etc as well as Google and Yahoo are all regarded as correspondence through a foreign server. All this traffic is already allowed to be intercepted by GCGQ and the NSA, irrespective of whether the recipient lives in the UK as well.

      For the record I know what serious damage can happen when private information gets into the wrong hands. It can and has led to people being re-homed, losing their jobs and having their whole lives destroyed, often along with their property too.

      This is not to say that what the private data say was illegal, wrong or anything like that. It purely comes from hate.

      Back in 2000 a certain national paper ran a campaign against convicted people who had been released back into the community. Through a lot of misguided accusations totally innocent people were directly harmed because of this stupid campaign.

      Private data should always remain private. The exception should only be for when a specific legal issue is required to be investigated and where suitable warrants have been issued.

      Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro: Connected at 80,000 kbps / 20,000 kbps
      Previous ADSL2+ Speed 19999 kbps 1153 kbps, Line Attenuation 17.5 db 6.9 db, Noise Margin 7.5 dB 8.7 dB
      Speedtest: 17.15MB/s 0.97Mb/s Ping 31 ms

    9. #18
      gymno's Avatar
      gymno Guest
      Exchange:
      Broadband ISP:
      Router:
      Sky TV:

      Re: UK to force telecom firms to spy on British citizens

      I felt sorry for that paediatrician.
      coipu likes this.

    10. #19
      Isitme's Avatar
      Isitme is offline Sky User Moderator
      Exchange: Bannockburn
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sky Hub SR102
      Sky TV: Sky+ HD
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
      Location
      Central Scotland
      Posts
      34,256
      Thanks
      65
      Thanked 1,655 Times in 1,616 Posts

      Re: UK to force telecom firms to spy on British citizens

      The way I see it is that this Bill simply requires communications providers to retain data, it does not give anyone carte blanch to look at the data. This requires the issue of a warrant, for which I assume probably cause will have to be given to the magistrate.

      TomD


      Please note the views and recommendations in my posts are my own and in no way reflect the views of SkyUser.


      Useful Utilites

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html/ TCPOptimiser /Test Socket

      Note - When downloading always select the Custom install or you will end up with stuff you don't want.





    11. #20
      Scubbie's Avatar
      Scubbie is offline Sky User Moderator
      Exchange: 02392
      Broadband ISP: Sky Fibre Unlimited
      Router: Sky Q Hub ER110
      Sky TV: Sky+HD box
      Join Date
      Mar 2010
      Location
      Near Portsmouth
      Posts
      28,200
      Thanks
      842
      Thanked 2,223 Times in 2,092 Posts

      Re: UK to force telecom firms to spy on British citizens

      AAISP Pledges to Protect UK Users from Government Internet Snoops - ISPreview UK
      As the controversial Data Retention and Investigation Powers Bill (DRIP) slips its way through the House of Commons and into the House of Lords, the outspoken boss of broadband ISP Andrews & Arnold (AAISP), Adrian Kennard, has promised to use “all practical legal means” in order to protect their customers from state sponsored Internet snooping.

      The bill, which is being rushed through parliament as emergency legislation, is effectively an amended version of the original Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA) which, upon request, requires phone and Internet providers to keep a basic access log of all website, email and phone call activity for up to 12 months. It’s also been accused of giving the Government and GCHQ powers to continue mass state-sponsored surveillance.

      The rush to push the powers through follows an earlier ruling by the European Court of Justice (ECJ), which found that the EU’s related Data Retention Directive was now considered “invalid” (here and here) because it breached the “fundamental right to respect for private life and the fundamental right to the protection of personal data” (i.e. Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU).

      But instead of addressing the ECJ’s ruling the emergency powers, which mercifully include a sunset clause that allows the legislation to be reviewed every six months, seeks not only to keep RIPA alive and protect it from EU legal challenges, but also to sneakily extend its remit to more Internet services (e.g. webmail, Skype and online video games perhaps) and make it more clearly applicable to non-UK entities (here).

      Suffice to say that there has been a lot of criticism about the way that the coalition Government, alongside the Labour party (both have long sought additional snooping powers), has gone about pushing through the new law with its small but extremely significant changes. But at least one ISP plans to do all it can to oppose the changes.
      Adrian Kennard, MD of AAISP, said:

      Just to be clear on our policy here – if DRIPA comes in to force, and if A&A become subject to a retention notice for all customers, we aim to work on all practical legal means to minimise the amount of data retained under that legislation – making full use of the bad wording in the Schedule in the 2009 regulations where possible.

      We also aim to clearly publish what is retained under such a notice and what steps we have taken to minimise such data. Such steps may mean separate companies running email or other services, or even hosting some servers outside the UK, if those are practical steps we can take.

      Why? Because blanket mass surveillance is illegal under EU law as it is against our basic human right to privacy as decided by a court, that’s why!”
      Similarly Entanet’s Product Manager, Paul Heritage-Redpath, said, “It is outrageous that laws affecting each and every one of us are being passed seemingly without any of the normal parliamentary oversight or debate.”
      Paul Heritage-Redpath added:

      There has been zero consultation. Instead, we will have a law that has been rushed through that gives the government tremendous power – and which the European Court of Justice has rejected. Once again the UK state is flying in the face of public opinion, ignoring industry experts and trampling on citizens’ rights in an attempt to extend its powers over technologies those in power understand little of and have even less control over.

      This is a sad day for British democracy
      .”
      At some point in the future the Government will be forced to come back and address the legislation properly, although with most MPs now seeming set to support the tougher measures it’s difficult to see how the situation will change going forwards.

     

     
    Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

    Tags for this Thread

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •  
    SkyUser - Copyright © 2006-2020. SatDish and NewsreadeR | SkyUser is in no way affiliated with Sky Broadband / BSkyB
    RIPA NOTICE: NO CONSENT IS GIVEN FOR INTERCEPTION OF PAGE TRANSMISSION