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    Rewiring

    This is a discussion on Rewiring within the Cabling and faceplate help forums, part of the Sky Broadband help and support category; The cables in my house are pretty old, i'm quite far from the exchange (3.43km in a straight line), and ...

    1. #1
      frayedwire's Avatar
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      Rewiring

      The cables in my house are pretty old, i'm quite far from the exchange (3.43km in a straight line), and my connection is pretty crap. I'm going to sort out the cables on my side of the master socket because they're a mess, I'm also thinking about the rest of the cabling though, which is what i'd like to talk about in this thread...

      First let me describe the setup: Old house divided into six flats. Three boxes on the outside wall (pics later), one a DACS 2, the other two i believe are block terminals. Our line comes from those, round the side of the building, in through the wooden window frame, and into an old GPO BT30 (I believe about 11 meters). From there an old 3 wire core cable runs about 11.5 meters to the NTE5.

      The first improvement to this i'd like to make is to move the NTE5 over next to the window and therefore cut out about 10 meters of unecessary old cable. I might then also replace what's left with a piece of 6 wire (3 pair) white CW1308.
      I'm aware that i'm not supposed to, but i feel more than confident about doing so. The only questions I have are to do with regulations reguarding placement of the NTE5 in order to not arouse suspicion from any engineers that may later come round:
      1) Mounting on skirting boards. Is this something that's been allowed at any point since the introduction of CW1308 cable? Or would an engineer not think anything of a skirting board mount with a piece of CW1308 cable?
      2) Distance. How far are cables allowed to pretrude inside a domestic home without a block terminal being used? - If i stick the NTE5 too close to the old BT30, would that be suspicious?
      3) Perhaps more importantly, location. Would it be okay to place it on the skirting board in the recess shown in the following picture (facing out)? The width of the gap is 100mm, so there's just enough room for it and the cabling going into the side of it.

      Oh, also, and perhaps crucially, What about the BT30 block terminal... Would an engineer actually connect CW1308 cable to a BT30? If not, if a block terminal was needed, would they replace it with say a BT80A (if so where would i get one?), or would they use a modern one and also replace the external cable?

      Rewiring-img_1650.jpg

      The second improvement i'm thinking of is replacing the external cable. It's pretty old (see pic below), and doing so would probably allow me to bypass the old GPO BT30 junction box. This is a little trickier though!
      1) Would i use CW1128 or CW1411 cable? There's one new phone line for another flat going into the external equipment, so i might be able to look inside and determine which that uses. Is CW1411 generally only used when a cable is suspended in the air, and CW1128 for when it's simply attached to a wall?
      btw, out of interest, what is the purpose of the grease inside these cables?
      2) How far into the building is the wire allowed to go before a block terminal is required? Would around 1.5 meters be acceptable?
      3) The neighbours pose a big problem, there are five other families in the building, and if i was caught by them replacing my external cable, i imagine they would likely call BT about it. Would it be worth the risk to replace this cable myself?

      External boxes:
      Rewiring-img_1632.jpgRewiring-img_1636.jpgRewiring-img_1637.jpg
      GPO BT30:
      Rewiring-img_1652.jpg

      btw, could anyone identify the types of cables in use here? I'd also be interested in knowing about the boxes on the outside wall (besides the DACS, i know what that is!), i presume they're just block terminals, am i right, and if so what types?

      Also perplexing me is the low number of cables coming from the equipment outside... As i said earlier, there are six flats here, but there only appear to be four cables... Ours goes up, and left (behind that metal strip in the photo (which i presume is earthing)). The black one is a new installation. The final two going up and right i guess must serve the four other flats... I would have thought they would have one each... All four flats have a landline (well, one might not anymore, but i'd presume the cable is still there). One of these flats definately has broadband and possibly also a second "business" line (don't know if they still have that), the other three i don't know whether they have internet connections or not, one had dial up at one point, one had broadband at one point (but apparently hasn't worked at all for quite some time), and the other i would presume has broadband though they might not.
      How could this work with seemingly only two cables? Perhaps that can only be answered by peeking inside the outside equipment?.....


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    3. #2
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      Re: Rewiring

      Quote Originally Posted by frayedwire View Post
      1) Mounting on skirting boards. Is this something that's been allowed at any point since the introduction of CW1308 cable? Or would an engineer not think anything of a skirting board mount with a piece of CW1308 cable? A BT engineer will stick cable where it is easiest!
      2) Distance. How far are cables allowed to pretrude inside a domestic home without a block terminal being used? - If i stick the NTE5 too close to the old BT30, would that be suspicious? If your site notes are up to date(doubtful) ANYTHING you do will be suspicious, especially as a new NTE5 would have the BT Openreach logo. I think you are reading into this too much, we sell hundreds of NTE5's each week, i haven't heard and anyone being in trouble over it. If external grade cable is used i think the limit on internal is 1.5/3m??3) Perhaps more importantly, location. Would it be okay to place it on the skirting board in the recess shown in the following picture (facing out)? The width of the gap is 100mm, so there's just enough room for it and the cabling going into the side of it.

      Oh, also, and perhaps crucially, What about the BT30 block terminal... Would an engineer actually connect CW1308 cable to a BT30? If not, if a block terminal was needed, would they replace it with say a BT80A (if so where would i get one?), or would they use a modern one and also replace the external cable?
      BT 80ABT 80A Junction Box (3 way IDC to 3 way screw connectors)

      Click image for larger version. 

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      The second improvement i'm thinking of is replacing the external cable. It's pretty old (see pic below), and doing so would probably allow me to bypass the old GPO BT30 junction box. This is a little trickier though!
      1) Would i use CW1128 or CW1411 cable? There's one new phone line for another flat going into the external equipment, so i might be able to look inside and determine which that uses. Is CW1411 generally only used when a cable is suspended in the air, and CW1128 for when it's simply attached to a wall?
      btw, out of interest, what is the purpose of the grease inside these cables? The grease is a moisture barrier. You wouldn't use either of those cables-use no 10 or 11 drop wire.2) How far into the building is the wire allowed to go before a block terminal is required? Would around 1.5 meters be acceptable? Yes3) The neighbours pose a big problem, there are five other families in the building, and if i was caught by them replacing my external cable, i imagine they would likely call BT about it. Would it be worth the risk to replace this cable myself? Why would they call BT?

      External boxes:
      Click image for larger version. 

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      GPO BT30:
      Click image for larger version. 

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      btw, could anyone identify the types of cables in use here? I'd also be interested in knowing about the boxes on the outside wall (besides the DACS, i know what that is!), i presume they're just block terminals, am i right, and if so what types?

      Also perplexing me is the low number of cables coming from the equipment outside... As i said earlier, there are six flats here, but there only appear to be four cables... Ours goes up, and left (behind that metal strip in the photo (which i presume is earthing)). The black one is a new installation. The final two going up and right i guess must serve the four other flats... I would have thought they would have one each... All four flats have a landline (well, one might not anymore, but i'd presume the cable is still there). One of these flats definately has broadband and possibly also a second "business" line (don't know if they still have that), the other three i don't know whether they have internet connections or not, one had dial up at one point, one had broadband at one point (but apparently hasn't worked at all for quite some time), and the other i would presume has broadband though they might not.
      How could this work with seemingly only two cables? Perhaps that can only be answered by peeking inside the outside equipment?.....

      This part worries me, if your cable comes out of an external junction box then messing around here really could land you in trouble!
      See above.
      run-IT-direct, For all your networking, ADSL & telecom requirements.

    4. #3
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      Re: Rewiring

      Quote Originally Posted by RUNITDIRECT View Post
      A BT engineer will stick cable where it is easiest! sorry, just to be clear, i meant the NTE5 itself, not the cable.

      If your site notes are up to date(doubtful) ANYTHING you do will be suspicious, especially as a new NTE5 would have the BT Openreach logo. I think you are reading into this too much, we sell hundreds of NTE5's each week, i haven't heard and anyone being in trouble over it. If external grade cable is used i think the limit on internal is 1.5/3m??
      Oh, they actually keep notes, didn't think of that!
      I guess perhaps i am reading too much into this, i'd just like to make the job look as "official" as possible to avoid as much suspicion as possible with any future visiting engineers.
      So, if i currently have 0.37m of old drop wire to a BT30, then 11.5m of old cable to the old NTE5, would it look at all suspicious (hopefully reguardless of site notes) or at all likely to get me in trouble, if from the end of the drop wire i changed it to a BT80A then 1.5m of CW1308, then our old NTE5 in it's new location?
      Or in fact, if i replaced the drop wire and connected directly to the old NTE5 in it's new location (would the type of drop wire be more likely to be recorded accurately in site notes?)?
      Also, what about putting the NTE5 in the recess in the picture, that wouldn't be against any regulations would it?
      Quote Originally Posted by RUNITDIRECT View Post
      You wouldn't use either of those cables-use no 10 or 11 drop wire
      Oh, right. Out of interest, where would CW1128/CW1411 be generally used then?
      Quote Originally Posted by RUNITDIRECT View Post
      Why would they call BT?
      If they saw me touching the external junction boxes...!
      Quote Originally Posted by RUNITDIRECT View Post
      This part worries me, if your cable comes out of an external junction box then messing around here really could land you in trouble!
      Oh. So it would be extremely ill advised to replace the drop wire myself then!? Surely it's fairly simple to do (lay new cable alongside old one, prepare both ends of cable, attach wire pair at both ends in place of existing pair), but i guess that's besides the point...

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      Re: Rewiring

      I said it worried me as you have a multi pair junction box which is serving others, it would be akin to someone on overhead feads climbing the BT pole and fitting their own dropwire!! I would simply fit an NTE5, a BT engineer is unlikely to get upset. If however, you have installed your own cable and entered a multi pair junction box and messed something else up they may well get upset!!! I would wire to a BT 80A (depending on cable type currenty fitted? If it is not heavy guage then a BT 77A would be better-IDC both sides), terminate the existing BT cable to this and then run CW1308 to the new NTE5. Of course officially speaking you are not supposed to do ANY of this
      run-IT-direct, For all your networking, ADSL & telecom requirements.

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      Re: Rewiring

      Ok, i think i'll leave the external cable alone. I'll move the NTE5, then ring up BT to see if they'll come and see if i can persuade them to come and "bring our wiring up to standard" for free - hopefully they'll replace the external cable themselves, and bypass the old BT30 going straight into the NTE5 in it's new place. If they won't come, i'll replace the BT30 with a BT80A and a piece of CW1308 and put up with the old external cable.

      thanks!

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      Re: Rewiring

      If you have no fault then BT won't replace the cable FOC.
      run-IT-direct, For all your networking, ADSL & telecom requirements.

     

     

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